facilitate the healing process, which I’m essentially coaching. And I was being brought in to do lectures and speaking engagements for all different kinds of conferences and corporate and eventually it just kind of became this thing that I found that I was really coaching, that the medical model was one that supported people to stay victims, as opposed to being empowered to be part of this solution. So that wasn’t working for me either, and I also wanted to have a greater impact. So my I closed my practice in about six or seven years ago, moved it into a coaching model and also into the workspace where I work with employees or leaders to help shift the culture and shift how they’re approaching themselves. And really what it came to be was that medicine is life. That’s it. Medicine is life, and it’s everything, you know, that’s how doctors used to be, right? We were storytellers. We connected heaven and earth and help people you know, be able to assimilate and navigate life through that. And that’s essentially what happened, you know, I just sort of became really good at being an executive coach and coaching leaders and CEOs, and, you know, it’s not very different. So where it’s kind of gone full circle, and so I get to do all different kinds of wonderful

 

Manon Bolliger  08:14

things. Wow, it’s I just, I really relate. And I don’t want to take your time with my story. I’ll do a little bit just because I’m getting to know you, but it’s, it’s funny, because my big statement is how you heal is how you live. What we need to decide is how we want to live. And, you know, and as I was a naturopathic doctor, I got that taken from me well, and then I politically resigned in the right way, in the sovereign way, so that, okay, fine, don’t I won’t use the title Doctor, fine, no problem. But, you know, it’s like you have one evolves with our own journey, right? And and then, you know, part of it is not to stick with what doesn’t fit, you know. And that’s what healing is all about. Is not to impose whether it’s the victim thing that that model does not work, you know, for sure, but nor does the natural same model fit, you know. And I’ve seen it in my own profession. Many of the naturopaths are wannabe MDs, and they’re using the old model instead of trusting the patient their story that evolution giving them the power. Anyway, so I’ll stop now. But anyway, I absolutely

 

Dr Eva Selhub  09:34

agree. And even I had this interview the other day, and we were in light, also talking about AI, and I said to him, I said, you know, this is the same thing. I tell people who are going to be coaches or working in the healing profession or teachers or leadership, it’s the same advice. It’s the questions you ask. Yeah, it’s not, it’s not the. Answer. You know, doctors, leaders, whoever they may be, are looking for an answer, and they’re looking for what they think is the right answer, and when we look for what we think is the right answer, we end up being stuck in a box, and then we don’t and we lose pliability, flexibility, adaptability, which was enables us to be resilient and to flourish. But when we ask the right question, it opens it up to a whole field of experiences and adventures and creativity and innovation and possible and ultimately possibilities, which is the placebo response when we look physiologically in the brain, right, when we when we go into infinite possibilities in our brain that triggers the dopaminergic reward system, and all of a sudden our body’s healing itself,

 

Manon Bolliger  10:46

right? And that’s the creative that’s the creative state. Exactly, yeah, no, that’s anyway, wonderful, wonderful, parallel, different journey. But it’s interesting. I’m sure

 

Dr Eva Selhub  10:56

part of it is probably the same. I think we won’t go into it. But I think, you know, you’re saying that you sort of got stripped of your, you know, like for me, also resigning from my job at Harvard as a medical director was, was also not easy, right? It was outspoken. I was slapped on the wrist many times at the time, for being too spiritual, for being too out there, you know, not following the mold. You know, it’s Harvard, after all, I can’t blame them. But, you know, I both walked out and got pushed out. It wasn’t, I mean, I won’t, it’s not nuts, really. So true, but, but I get it. I understand it. I would have pushed me out too. So it’s sort of the notion of, of, there’s the ability to think outside of what’s in front of us, to know that there is, there are other possibilities and other ways that we can co create. What I love about, you know, kids today is they really do think that way. I think a lot of people think it’s a problem, but I think it’s, it’s kind of wonderful that they’re saying, you know, no, I don’t want to go to school. I want to do it differently. I think that’s great. Yeah,

 

Manon Bolliger  12:07

well, I mean, do you think that? I mean, I recall being like that myself as a kid, and then eventually you sort of get somewhat indoctrinated into a system and, you know, and I don’t know. I think it’s when it stopped for me. It’s when I couldn’t voice my opinion, you know, which was a few years back, because of circumstances happening in the world. And I had, I had, I felt I have the right to, you know, to question things. And I don’t appreciate any board or any institution that believes that you don’t have the right, you know, because otherwise we can’t advance, you know. So I think it’s as a kid I question, and then I continue to question, and I think that’s the that’s the door that allows the perspective to come in and real healing and real evolution, real awakening,

 

Dr Eva Selhub  13:04

you know? I mean, I think that’s, I mean, that’s, again, what I was alluding to, is that we want to create a shift in our world.

 

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Dr Eva Selhub  14:23

that’s why my focus has been with leaders, because here’s wants this change to happen, to focus more on not what’s doing, what they think is right, but to explore questions. And when we explore questions, we enable curiosity. We enact we enable innovation, we enable growth, and we start shifting the frequency within which we exist and that everybody else exists so right now and but what? But you and I have experienced and very similarly, I don’t like rules. I mean, that was another thing. I just didn’t like rules. I don’t want people. That’s why it’s hard to practice medicine when you have to follow swimming. Rules, right? Also be dangerous. So, you know, you you kind of do have to follow rules in many ways and in other ways. You know, it’s, it’s too rigid and and especially in the US, it’s like the, you know, it’s such a litigious and fear based way of practicing freedom and autonomy. So that leads to poor decision making. So, but again, if we look at our sort of human history, we have innovation, and then somebody makes up some rules, and this is how it needs to be. You know, whether it’s religion or government or whatever it is, it’s a means of initially doing it, because you think it’s best, like a parent, but it comes to controlling and rigid and fear based. And then that that child will bucket and try to find their autonomy, and they’ll follow the rules initially, and they go, Wait a minute. I want to do it my own way. And then they start trying to push, push their limits and see how far they can go. So it’s sort of like parenting playing itself out over and over again. And I think we’re being given the opportunity now to say, Can we do this differently? Is there a different way to approach this

 

Manon Bolliger  16:09

without just repeating the the the pendulum that keeps swinging one way or the other? So what do you think that is with young people like, I mean, what? I homeschooled my kids, you know, and less so my third one, because at that time I was so full on with practice and my college, so I just couldn’t anymore. But she was also wanting social life, and that time, I wasn’t able to provide it, you know. Whereas before I lived in the country, I I could do all those things, you know, and I could meet up with so, you know, I had to change with the actual circumstances that I, I guess, I created, you know, I’ll take responsibility for it, but it, you know, it, it was a bit challenging to figure that out. But what do you see now? I mean, I have grandkids and the full of wonder and asking every question on Earth, and where do you see? I mean, you’re working with leaders. What would you suggest to maybe the patients listening, or other practitioners you know, that are dealing with young, younger people, how to encourage them forward. How do you what do you see as

 

Dr Eva Selhub  17:27

an option? It’s interesting because I had this conversation with my niece yesterday. Well, she’s 23 and I’ve been a big part of her life. I mean, since the day she was born, as well as my nephew, who’s now six and a half, so, so I, I’ve been really involved. I don’t have kids with my own, but I have been very involved in, I would say, in their lives. Let’s put it that way, some parenting, a little bit with Maya, but and, and I said to her this, I said, I’m going to let you fail. I love you, and I am always going to support you, and I’m going to let you fail. She was like, and I said, because it’s not a bad thing, a single successful entrepreneur who didn’t million times first, yeah, yeah. And I certainly have failed a billion times. That’s how I’ve learned. Why would I deny you that, and why would I deny you the ability to be resilient, not to mention, why would I, why would I disrespect you and your abilities to rise above Right? Exactly. It’s very important for parents. And I had this conversation with my client a couple days ago because he wanted to relate better to his kids. I’m like, stop trying to relate to them. You know, you’re almost 60 years old, they’re in their 20s. Stop trying to relate to them. Don’t make it about you,

 

Manon Bolliger  18:59

right? Yeah,

 

Dr Eva Selhub  19:00

I said your job as a parent is to have your life and love your life and love them. You set boundaries, you set structure for them, sort of like when you plant a tree. It needs to have, you know, place to move upwards, but then it just goes its own way, and you don’t, because he sort of, you know, I worry that they’re not resilient enough, so that’s why he’s always, like, taking care of things. And I said, Well, yeah, you know, if you doubt their abilities, they’re going to doubt their abilities too. But what if you said, I believe that you’ve got this, and if you don’t feel that you do, let’s talk about it. Let’s figure out, like, pros and cons in what you might need. I’m here to support you. I also believe in your abilities to handle this so it’s not sort of stepping away, no stepping to the side and letting them be who they are and just letting them fail, because a lot of kids are scared of failing, yeah, weird or failing. And. Because society says it’s bad to fail, but let them fail.

 

Manon Bolliger  20:04

Well, I mean, it’s funny that that really is a trigger point for me, in that I believe in the concept and you can fail financially do all you want. I don’t care, like that’s I’ll be there, but I when it came to making decisions that I felt were uninformed and part of a bigger I’ll call it just a propaganda machine, you know, pharmaceutical interests, etc, I couldn’t help but intervene and just say, you know, we left it that you know after this date, you guys decide you know, but I’m going to send you what I can. Yeah, you know,

 

Dr Eva Selhub  20:53

structure. You’re not saying don’t do this. You’re saying we’re going to give you some information. Yeah, I’m, I’m going to recognize that you are so and so years old and your brain isn’t fully formed yet, right? You’re in your and you will likely make decisions with or without my input, yeah? Because that’s what people do. It’s age appropriate behavior. Yeah. Okay, so it’s recognizing what is, calming your own fear, so it’s not there, and you’re neutral going in and you say, I’m just going to give you this information. Do with it what you want. I just whatever decision you make, make it informed. Don’t make it impulsively. That’s all I can suggest. And with that, I trust you. I trust you to make the decision that’s right, yeah, whatever that may be, yeah, different than I’m worried about you.

 

Manon Bolliger  21:47

Oh, yeah, no, no, that’s a different story. But I’m thinking a lot of you know, parents. In my case, I did draw the line. I made a few exceptions because I couldn’t help myself. And did you see this? You know? What? About that study, you know, which were all denied. It’s like, oh no, no. You know, we trust the whatever the structures that be. But you know, some, some parents forced it on their children because of their belief systems, right? So it’s also the other way, if you, if you can have such a belief, that you are ultimately right, or you control their destiny you don’t. I mean, that’s, that’s the piece. I think it’s like you’re there you offer, and then you got to step back. I mean, you know, I think that’s the the art, and it’s, um, it’s difficult, and a lot of people are now suffering from that realization that you’re sharing

 

Dr Eva Selhub  22:42

again. I’m not a parent. I have no right to tell people how to do anything when it comes to parenting, so it’s not my place. But I do know how I work with clients and and their kids and my niece and my nephew and employees and that sort of thing. And why? When burnout happens because people are lacking autonomy. They don’t feel like they have a voice. They’re feeling they’re being controlled again. It’s human behavior playing out, the mother, father, child, whatever, just playing out in life. And so how can we change that frequency? You know, ask questions. Oh, how interesting that you want to do this. Tell me more. Tell me what? So rather than saying, Here, listen like, here’s the information again, it’s just a suggestion we ask questions. Oh, really, that’s kind of that’s super interesting that you want to do that. How come? No, what? Tell me more. I’d love to understand this. This is what I understand? Can you tell me what you understand? Like, what, what is like? I want to hear more. So when we open that up to that sort of frequency, it’s actually full of honor and respect, as opposed to, I worry about you. You don’t know what you’re doing. You’re a teenager without much of a brain. And here, read up on this. Just different,

 

Manon Bolliger  24:00

yeah, yeah, no. And it also makes, makes the other one more like there, they become fully responsible for their decision, right? It’s not, it doesn’t trigger the, you know, oh, the parent is to this or to that. It really comes to, oh gosh, you know, I have to live with my decision. Do I really believe what I’m repeating?

 

Dr Eva Selhub  24:25

Right? And there’s no weight around whether or not I’m going to disappoint my parent,

 

Manon Bolliger  24:31

no, but that’s yeah, that I don’t like. I haven’t seen too much of that way.

 

Dr Eva Selhub  24:37

I mean, this happens even though we’re not aware of it. The more I’m like when I dig deeper into, sort of my own psyche and with the feelings that happen within me, there is a lot of guilt in there, or disappointment that I’m disappointing my parents or something like that. And it’s, and it’s, it’s really subtle. It’s not, not so obvious. So again, when we approach something with love. Love, and I love you, really. It’s again, we have to put on our own mask, right with, get into our own place of equilibrium within ourselves, which is, the tools that I teach people, is how to regulate that response, how to achieve emotional equilibrium and intelligent, to step outside of that and be more mindful, be more present. And you know, it’s sort of what, heart centered detachment, if you will. Yeah, yeah, in heart center detachment when we’re with family, boy, you know, we’ve got to be pretty enlightened to be able to do that. But, you know, it’s a goal. It’s a goal.

 

Manon Bolliger  25:38

Our time is like, up tiny but I have so many more questions. But I we can, we can do another interview again? Yeah, yes. Is there any final words you want to share?

 

Dr Eva Selhub  25:53

I think, I think leaving on that note is I know that people have a lot of worries, whether it’s about the future of the world or their finances or their health or their loved ones, which is normal, and the first focus is always you, is to have compassion for you, to take care of you, to fill yourself up with love and compassion and nurturing and fill oneself up into a place where your cup can run us over, and then you’ll be able to be in that place of heart center detachment and to navigate your world as as you can, as opposed to out of fear or worry. I’m

 

Manon Bolliger  26:36

gonna leave it with that I completely agree. Thank you so much for spending your time and having this conversation. Thank you for having me so with my meeting with Dr Eva selha, many interesting points were raised, and I’m just bringing it back to my community of Bowen college practitioners in their relationship with their patients. I think a lot of what was shared definitely applies in many ways. You guys are nice to girls or whatever, guys and goals are our leaders in the healthcare movement, and it’s really important that your clients well, you yourselves first and foremost, but also that your clients or patients are thinking of like using their imagination, Their curiosity, and all of this really helps when you allow them to explore questions. So it redefines a little bit authority, you know. And I always say that many times, we don’t know, we can’t know the results of what we do like for sure. We can say, in our experience, we’ve seen many cases, but for any individual, there’s so many factors involved that we can’t know the results, right, but we can, we can definitely explore questions so that that they’re thinking what other choices might be available to them, and it may position the work with fascia and with Bowen in a very positive light. So what you want to do are points that Dr Eva mentions directly. You want to enable curiosity, you want to enable innovation. You want to enable growth, all of that. If you can have that type of energy in relation to your your client or your patient, there’s going to be a lot more respect, more teamwork, more follow through and and you’re changing literally the frequency, because you’re coming in with a much higher frequency to the entire engagement. And the thing is to just like we need to learn to do with our children, you know, we need to let them fail. And as an entrepreneur, well, failure is part of the thing. You know, you fail, and you constantly fail, and you pick up your boots and you start again. And if you’re a new practitioner, and you’re trying to get seen and known in the market, you’re going to fail. And eventually, you, if you continue, and you’re being authentic to yourself, and you’re you know, you see the work, you you get the results, you will win. So it takes failure sometimes to win. It’s not an absolute necessity, but let’s say that by and large, most entrepreneurs who succeed have failed. So. It’s getting up from the failure and moving forward that makes the difference. Now, if we turn this to our patients, they have definitely, by and large, failed at whatever they’ve tried before. So it’s kind of a parallel if, if we can engage the best part of them to make the step to go forward. In this very moment, there is possibility, and therefore there is change possible, and therefore they indeed might get better. So it’s kind of shifting a little bit the you know the the onus of responsibility back to their engagement in their own therapy.

 

ENDING: 

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