I’m seeing a lot in the country where people will say, you know, I’ve got my weed card. It’s legal. I got it at the corner store, the Delta eight, the Delta nine. And even people, when you’re getting it on the street, that maybe that may be laced with fentanyl at the end of the day, that’s what I’m seeing, is one of the biggest issues, and I’m not here coming down on wheat, it’s more so that there are people there’s like alcohol. Some people can drink alcohol and they’re fine. Some people drink alcohol and they’re not fine. Same thing with weed. So that’s what I’m seeing out there in the world,

 

Manon Bolliger  06:16

okay? And with the weed, it could be the weed itself, but it’s also the current time period where it’s being laced many times. Or is that? Is that a factor?

 

Evan Jarschauer  06:29

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so at the end of the day, it’s it’s getting easier and easier to buy weed, or marijuana or cannabis at a dispensary. It’s easier and easier because it becomes more and more legalized and all that. But when people are buying it out on the street and they’re finding that there’s a even more powerful high to it, sometimes you might prefer to get it out there, but the reason you’re getting that additional high is perhaps because it’s got something extra inside it that’s giving you that kick. And oftentimes is the case, or in many cases, it could be mixed with any number of substances, one of which may be fentanyl, which, of course, we all know can kill you. Yeah. Well,

 

Manon Bolliger  07:19

we’re seeing that in Vancouver, full on, full blast, you know, yeah, really intense here. And you know, marijuana has been legal for a while, which, you know, I mean, on my understanding. And I’m no expert on this, I’m asking a bit your opinion on this. Making something legal doesn’t necessarily it’s not the the root of the problem, per se, because if it’s illegal, people who are wanting it will search it, and then they will get sources that are more likely contaminated, at least, that’s how I see it,

 

Evan Jarschauer  08:01

yeah, that could happen that way for sure, yeah. But

 

Manon Bolliger  08:05

then, you know, I my background. I’m Swiss, and I know in Switzerland, they decided to address this whole drug issue by making it available easily for everyone. And this was not marijuana, this was all kinds of drugs, and my understanding is that the project failed.

 

Evan Jarschauer  08:30

Yeah, that’s delicate. So, you know, you’re looking at measures fundamentally, harm reduction, right? Where, rather than have people share needles, right? Rather than take the chance that there’s fentanyl in whatever the hope is that by making it available, or making the way to use the substance or access the substance, you kind of take away the criminal, nefarious world that surrounds that, and it also takes away a lot of the people having to do things that might cause them to kill themselves or commit crimes and things like that. Unfortunately, however, in many cases, you try to fix the problem by using a harm reduction practice like that. But you may actually, unfortunately, by making it easier, it also potentially helps people become greater access, more people using it, more social interaction using those substances, and it sometimes, in some cases, can backfire and but there’s no question that trying to reduce the risks associated with substance abuse is a great idea. It’s just that sometimes, by providing those substances or providing the needles, i. Um, or the syringes might, in the longer run, potentially backfire, because you may find more people start to use the substances because it becomes easier access. No perfect science on this,

 

Manon Bolliger  10:14

yeah, no, no. Seems complicated for sure. So what mental illnesses, because at the beginning of our talk, you mentioned that somebody may have an underlining mental disposition which could be triggered by a product to you know, will increase, let’s say, hallucinations or so, yeah. So is that the main type of people that you’re called to intervene and help the families out? Or so,

 

Evan Jarschauer  10:49

yeah. So for example, let’s say you’ve got somebody who has mood dysregulation. In other words, they’re not able to regulate their mood. So you might have somebody with bipolar disorder, right? So one minute they’re up, one minute they’re down, one minute they’re angry, one minute they’re your best friend. And so they’re trying to potentially use weed to self medicate and to try to regulate the problem. One of the challenges with that is that if there also happens to be some degree of psychotic features, delusional thinking in conjunction with those mood swings by using weed or and there’s other drugs as well, like, and this is no this is not to say psilocybin is bad, like mushrooms are bad, or weed is bad. However, some people that may already have a pre existing condition that has some type of delusional component to it, these substances sometimes actually, like I said before, act like lighter fluid, and all you’re doing is you’re exacerbating the problem by trying to self medicate and self regulate with those substances. So bipolar would be one of those conditions, definitely anxiety or trauma. Those are, those are two of the ones that I see where people are trying to use to get away, to somehow just numb out the emotional pain of what they’ve gone through. But for those people that just can’t use weed or mushrooms or any other substance, just from a say, like a from a just to calm down, to occasional use, just to take the edge off, if you will, sometimes they will, you’ll find that the symptoms are exacerbated by the use of those substances inadvertently,

 

Manon Bolliger  12:48

right? But it also come, I mean, it makes me think how we’re we’re lacking health professionals or people with the experience of dealing with this type of sometimes it’s used as a therapy, right, as you probably know, and, yeah, sure, many countries, and not so much as a band aid to hide the emotions, but rather to explore and get through some Of the of this, you know. So I see that as well. And I think, I mean, I’ve certainly heard of many cases that have been very helpful using this, but under guidance. Yeah,

 

Evan Jarschauer  13:34

absolutely. There’s no question that herbal remedies, herbal medicines. I mean, I’m not a herbal herbalist or homeopathic doctor. I’m not any of that stuff. But for centuries, millennia with societies all over the world, medicinal roots and herbs have been used, right? So I’m not going there at all, but for sure, there are some people that just have a bad reaction to those types of medicinal remedies. And to further your point, you know it also sometimes goes to who’s advocating for whatever the drug or the remedy is, whether it’s who’s backing the weed legislation, who’s backing legislation for legalized MDMA. There’s so many geopolitical variables that I try my very best not to get in the mix of because I’m a counselor. At my heart, I’m a counselor. I’m an intervention counselor. So I try to stay away from all that geopolitical turmoil, all. All the prevention, provincial stuff that goes on in your world, I just try to keep my nose clean and help as many families as I can. That’s what I try to do. And

 

Manon Bolliger  15:09

I think that’s the best choice, because, honestly, it’s a mess, right? Well, not knowing that it could some of the stuff could be used for good, could be right under the right circumstances, you know, don’t know. And then there’s, they’re stuck with it. They don’t know what their symptoms mean. They freak out and their their condition exacerbated, you know, so I see there’s so many, so many angles to this. So, so who, who typically calls you or how does, how does your How does it work? Yeah,

 

Evan Jarschauer  15:54

so usually a family, loved ones will reach out. What would

 

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Evan Jarschauer  17:09

And they will say, you know, Hi, I have a loved one who is struggling. We’re trying to get him some help, or her some help. They’re not willing to accept help. We’ve tried every which way to get them help, and we just can’t break through. We can’t get through. That’s usually who’s reaching out. It’s loved ones, concerned, mothers, fathers, cousins, brothers, sisters, steps, stepsons, aunts, uncles, co workers. You know, that’s kind of who’s reaching out, but usually it’s at the point where so the people who are trying to get someone some help, they feel that the person has to hit bottom. You’ve heard that concept hitting bottom right. So there is a counter balance to that in my world, where in order for a family to bring me in to help the people that surround that individual. They have to have hit a bottom first. They’ve got to get to the point where they recognize that the harder that they try, the unfortunately, sometimes, the further cornered, the more challenging it becomes to get that person to go get some help. And that’s where it makes sense for to bring me, someone like me, and as a professional behavioral health interventionist,

 

Manon Bolliger  18:29

I see, yeah, no, I can understand that dynamic. You know, where you’re you feel like an animal cornered, and you know it’s for the good, but you’re not. Yeah, so what are, I mean, no names and no references. But what are? Maybe a case you could share where you know you have had that impact, both on the family and the person. Yeah, maybe a challenging case that has affected you or has given you the motivation to keep going on? Yeah?

 

Evan Jarschauer  19:07

So, yeah, look, um, I don’t have any easy there are no such there are no easy cases, because I’m literally walking you ever see there’s this? I don’t know if the guy’s Canadian or American or whatever. But this older guy, I think he’s a French guy, who climbs up buildings with no rope. He just has chalk. And, you know, there’s like these, like free, free climb walking people, they do their or mountain, mountain climbers that only use their hands chalk. So in many cases, you know, I’m kind of out there. There is no net. I’m in the field. I’m before the person is seeing the therapist, seeing the psychiatrist, in a program, and I’m dealing with some very raw situations, very emotionally. You. Engaging situations. So for me, every case is challenging because there’s a lot of unknown variables that I tried my very best to manage. I think that though, when you ask the questions that you know, which cases maybe have the most impact, I think for me, a case in which there are children, where my work, and I’m a cog. You know what a cog is? A ball bearing. You got this big conveyor belt, right? And it produces some amazing something, but along the way, you got to have these little pellets that are greased to make it roll. I’m like one of those little ball bearings. I feel as though I’m needed, because if you take me out of that little conveyor belt, things kind of flop around. So for me, when there’s a case where there’s a mother or father who is struggling and they’re in crisis, and by helping that family or helping that person get on track, agree to accept help, and, you know, work towards recovery, and I’m going to use one of you, I guess, where you’re at really embrace the concept of interpersonal healing, right? For me, what that does is that really, it’s like a Karma thing for me, knowing that I may have just given that kid or that child, the opportunity to have that amazing, healthy relationship with their parent in the future as the person heals. And that’s something in my world that I kind of was deprived of. So it is a way for me to kind of feel a certain sense of even though I may not have been able to get that by my circumstances, I’m going to be able to hopefully help those kids be able to have that healthy relationship with their loved one, with their parents. And the other set of cases are the ones where there is a parent who has some type of terminal illness and where I’m able to help that mother or father or grandparent be able to see their loved one actually enter into a program and at least get on the road to recovery before they pass. Those are some of the real intense ones. I’m not going to share with you the famous people I work with and the very powerful people I work with. I can’t do that. That would be very interesting, but I ain’t going to do it, but I can share with you, from an emotional standpoint, that that’s the kind of stuff for me, personally that really makes me feel like, okay, this is a very, very cool job, position, opportunity, career. And so for that reason, I consider myself, from a professional standpoint, one of the luckiest people out there. I don’t feel like I’ve really gone to work in maybe 20 years.

 

Manon Bolliger  23:23

Well, yeah, that’s definitely a sign of loving what you do, right? Absolutely, and what keeps you I mean, there must be sometimes where things don’t go. Well, how do you how do you make peace with that

 

Evan Jarschauer  23:47

yourself? Yeah, so I give it everything I got. I, you know, I we look at contingency plans. What do we do here? What do we do here? How does this get handled? So, you know, I You can’t control, you know, you can only control what you can control. You can go, only go as far as you can go, right? I think, and I’m, by the way, I don’t know if you realize this yet, but I’m not as smart as a surgeon. Just letting you know that in advance, right? Because surgeons, either they need to know math, they need to know science, they need to know make them smarter. Well, it definitely means that they know how to do math. At least they know how to calculate stuff, right? Well, here’s the point I’m getting at um, I think a good surgeon is a surgeon who is able to be good at what they do with the blood, with all the stuff that they’re looking at, the pain, the suffering, they’re able to focus in on helping that person. I. Um, being able to keep their heads together under very stressful situations. And so for me, I’ve definitely evolved, developed the ability to recognize that I’m in a very emotionally charged situation. Bad things can happen, but I have to be able to keep my head together so I can continue to help people moving forward. Otherwise, if I find myself kind of stuck in a case, how am I supposed to help the other families, and how am I supposed to even help that family if I allow myself to get too emotionally connected? So it’s a very delicate balance. I have to be caring, compassionate, I have to be connected, but I also have to be very careful that I’m able to maintain a professional perspective on the expectation set and what we’re trying to accomplish.

 

Manon Bolliger  25:57

No, I agree with what you’re saying completely in in principle. How do you the part of the question is, yeah, how? What does it take to get that? Because it’s, I mean, all health professionals who are dealing with, you know, life and death situations. Have to learn this. What is this? What is that for you that? What is that skill? How would you name it or describe it?

 

Evan Jarschauer  26:32

I said, I think it is being able to recognize that you know you are going to give it everything you got. Use all your training, your skills, your interpersonal perspective on the situation, your own understanding and recognize that you can only go as far as you can go. You can only take a family as far as they’re willing to go, and at the end of the day, not everything is within your ability to manage and being able to accept that some people can’t accept that, some people are not willing or unable to accept the fact that that they did everything they could possibly do, and feeling as though They’re responsible. That has there has to be a certain way to establish boundaries within yourself. Otherwise, in my line of work, at least, how are you supposed to be able to function? And I think that’s one of the challenges too in the health services industry, behavioral health services burnout, emotional burnout is so high because, simply because you see people in crisis and suffering and struggling, it really does take a toll, but being able to carefully put a perspective on your role in helping, because if you burn out, then how Are you supposed to help the next family? And how you supposed to help your family

 

Manon Bolliger  28:05

now, it’s it’s a fine line between what is within your control and what is what you choose to believe or see as not in your control, you know. And right where that line is is, you know, is an interesting one, right for, I think a lot of health professionals now are going to be asking, asking themselves that very question, you know, doing actions they’ve done or not done, depending, you know. So it’s going to be a very, I mean, I agree with you completely. That’s, you know, same with my experience with my patients, especially if they, you know, they were very sick or or in the process of dying. And there may be hope, because I always see hope. There’s still a line, you know, but it’s especially if you’re taking an action, or you’re giving a drug, or you’re, you know, following a procedure that may be accepted by Yeah, but, you know, those are lines that we’re all going to have to come to terms with. That absolutely, yeah, very interesting times anyway. Well, do you have a few last words, our time is actually up, but I’d love you to just conclude

 

Evan Jarschauer  29:26

this talk. Yeah, I think that I love what you said about having hope, because that’s the central crux of my work. Because I’m coming into cases where families feel there is no hope. Many cases, they feel there’s no hope. And so I think that having hope is a critical element of really being able to continue to move forward, because when if you give up hope, then there’s, what are you what are you looking forward to? And so for that reason, I think that’s something essential that you got to have, and you got to be. Able to use it in a in my world, in a solution focused way, not just to have hope, but how are we going to move towards a hopeful outcome? And so with that said, I mean, that’s pretty much that’s always been, pretty been. Always been my mantra, you know, there is hope. And with a plan of action, with a solid plan of action, you have a a opportunity to have a, a actual, a hopeful solution. So that’s kind of where I’m at.

 

Manon Bolliger  30:37

Well, thank you very much, Evan, Josh, and I’m while on travel, so I’m on duty, I guess, truthful. Alright. Thank you. So this conversation with Evan jarshauer brings up many points that are relevant, also to Bowen therapist and to healthcare practitioners in general. It’s based on the idea of, you know, what is our responsibility and but also our inner responsibility? What do we feel we can do? So, as he says, he puts his his all in it. And I know many practitioners do the same. And then there’s also the other part. Is what is not within our scope, you know what? What could happen that is nothing we could have done anything about. And where do we draw that line, and it really makes me, you know, question, and also have a lot of empathy for the practitioners and and doctors who in The recent Well, recent five years ago, apparent mandates, at least in Canada, where healthcare practitioners really had no choice but to take it or lose their jobs, actually, as many people did, many doctors left, many nurses left. I think we have massive numbers of people who left the profession because they would not comply with certain things. The thing is that if there they stayed and they are part of the people who participated in giving these, I don’t want to give too many names, in case I get taken off here. But who participated in this mandate? What is their responsibility? You know? Can they say? Well, they did all they could, but they had to. Is that, you know, I mean, in Nuremberg trial, that’s not good enough, being told to isn’t good enough. But how are, how are practitioners going to live with this reality that people got injured and died as a result of their not saying No, and that’s really the question I have, you know, to discuss. And anyone listening this who would like to take this discussion further, feel free to connect with me. I’d love to explore this in depth.

ENDING: 

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