How To Heal With Osteopathy with Kate Redford, ND on The Healers Café with Dr. Manon Bolliger, ND
In this episode of The Healers Café, Dr. Manon Bolliger, ND, Kate Redford, Pain Coach and Osteopathic Manual Practitioner, coaching people living with chronic issues and/or pain.
Highlights from today’s episode include:
Kate RedfordFascia is, to me, it’s like saran wrap around every single structure in the body. You can think of it around every single muscle fiber, every single muscle, every single bone, every single organ, it’s even around all your arteries. So, it’s everywhere. And then if you think of the fascia as saran wrap, which is pretty easy to, it’s fragile. And if you can think of 100 different spider webs all intertwined, wrapping around every single tissue in your body, and then you yank on one end of it, because you broke your ankle when you were 18. Or you had a bad concussion when you were 12. Playing hockey or, there’s a million ways to create tension in the body at any age.
So how does hydration fit with all of that, it’s going to move better, the better your fluids that are movement moving. I to be honest, think more about the fluidic body. I don’t really think about it as hydration as I do, how your lymphatic system is working, how all the fluids in your body are working together. And we’re taught that emotions are held in that fluid.
There’s another layer, when I think about fluids, is I want to see that whole fluidic body. I mean, fluids are everywhere in our body. And we are taught with our hands to feel where they’re not moving well. So, to get them moving better in a person can be so rewarding for you as the practitioner and the person because it’s just a level that maybe they haven’t been treated on. And for a lot of people, they can get a lot of success through that.
About Kate Redford
I have been helping people heal from pain for the last 20 years. My mission is to empower people to heal themselves. The body is always going toward health. Learning how to best support this process for each individual is my passion. After graduating with a Kinesiology degree I became a Rehab Personal Trainer. Then I became a Registered Massage Therapist and later I went back to school for 6 years part time to be an Osteopathic Manual Practitioner. I also am a Holistic Nutritionist. Most recently I have become a Jack Canfield Train The Trainer Coach. I love learning and I am always curious! I imagine never retiring because my job is so rewarding and challenging!
Core purpose / passion: My purpose is to give and receive love and connect to the oneness of all living things. I am here to make the world a better place. I am here to be an example to my kids. I am here to shine my light bright so that I bring light to darkness in myself and others.
To do this I practice radical self care. Being in nature makes me feel alive and inspired! I LOVE exercising in nature in any weather! My core’s purpose and passion in my business life is to empower people to heal themselves. That is why I have transitioned part of my business to coaching people to live a pain free life. I love the hands-on treatment but the patient is lying down and I am guiding the healing. I am excited about coaching people how to do the healing themselves by self reflective exercises and taking action!
About Dr. Manon Bolliger, ND:
Dr. Manon is a Naturopathic Doctor, the Founder of Bowen College, an International Speaker, she did a TEDx talk “Your Body is Smarter than you think. Why aren’t you Listening?” in Jan 2021, and is the author of Amazon best-selling books “What Patient’s Don’t Say if Doctors Don’t Ask”. & “A Healer in Every Household” For more great information to go to her weekly blog: http://bowencollege.com/blog.
For tips on health & healing go to: https://www.drmanonbolliger.com/tips
About The Healers Café:
Dr. Manon’s show is the #1 show for medical practitioners and holistic healers to have heart to heart conversations about their day to day lives.
Follow us on social media! https://www.facebook.com/thehealerscafe
Welcome to the Healers Cafe. Conversations of health and healing with Dr. Manon.
Dr. Manon 00:24
So welcome to the Healers Cafe. And today I have with me Kate Redford, and boy, she has done a whole bunch of different trainings. She graduated with a kinesiology degree, became a rehab personal trainer, a registered massage therapist, and then decided to study six more years part time to become an osteopathic manual practitioner. She’s also a holistic nutritionist. And I’m sure there’s more a coach, of course, there’s that, but her purpose is to give and receive love and connect to the oneness of all living things. I think I’m going to leave it at that and welcome you. And you can add in the parts that may have been missing.
Kate Redford 01:16
There’s no parts missing.
Dr. Manon 01:19
It’s quite a while I’m assuming that there were stages that got you to go to different things. So, I think my first question to you, which is common to all healers, what happened? How did you start in this journey literally?
Kate Redford 01:39
So interestingly enough, I was really, really, really into exercise. If I was in nature exercising, I was happiest as like, grade five, grade six, like, that was something I loved. And I remember going to do a 10k run somewhere around my house. And there was massage therapy for free, you know, at the end of the race. And I was, I don’t know, 17 years old. And I remember lying on the table, and no one had ever really touched me for therapy or anything like that. Nothing like that ever. And I remember, they touched my lower back on the left side. And I almost jumped off the table. And I thought, oh my gosh, if I want to run the rest of my life, I better take care of myself. And so, I started seeing the person in charge. Of course, it was all the students practicing massage at the race. And so, I ended up going to see that teacher who did sport massage. And the rest is sort of history. I graduated from, you know, loved the body and anything about the body. So, kinesiology was a great match. And then massage therapy was just because I’ve been going to see one, I honestly can’t remember the mechanics that I do remember that when they touched my muscle and I thought, holy heck! How could that hurt?
Dr. Manon 03:04
Because it’s interesting. I mean, some people go into health care, not because they’ve had a pleasurable experience. But usually because there was something that they wanted to solve or something that their own life experience led them, you know, into finding solutions for so that was not then your case.
Kate Redford 03:29
You know, I think God was speaking to me through the back door. Because my blinders were on here. And yes, of course, that was really that was how I remember getting into massage. But honestly, I went into massage thinking No, I’m science based I’m not what you might think, when you think of massage therapy. And really my digestion had been an issue. But again, at that point, I kind of thought my digestion was normal, because it was normal for me! And then of course, it got worse. And then I started to in my 20s think, oh, I don’t think this is normal. And I was so off balance. That’s where I hold my stress. I can remember being a five-year-old and having digestive issues, my mom can remember me as a baby having digestive issues. So that’s been the long running theme for me. And it was interesting because I really didn’t walk into Kinesiology and personal training and massage. I didn’t walk into that with Oh, I’m like, like, I feel now I’m, I can say I’m a healer and I didn’t see myself as that in the least. So that has been the journey and ….
of course, I healed myself along the way. I am healing myself.
Dr. Manon 04:46
So, because osteopathy is a sort of natural deepening of the knowledge but osteopathy from what I understand. also offers quite another angle A bit like, I would do with Bowen therapy. And then I teach it at my college. But I have found that osteopathy is the end. There’s different schools of osteopathy .But there is there’s a definite correlation with Bowen therapy and osteopathy in the way that we understand the body working. Do you want to expand on that a little bit?
Kate Redford 05:47
Absolutely. So, osteopathy literally changed my life and how I got sitting in that seat that first day. Again, I was really searching, I was five years into massage therapy, and the training, it was an awesome gig. But I was like, I cannot do this forever. I just can’t. It’s very taxing. I was, again, I was chasing the pain. If you had a sore shoulder, I treated your shoulder sometimes it works. Sometimes it didn’t. So, it was rewarding. But I felt like there was more. And when I sat in that seat…so in June, I went to a psychic as one does. And they said oh we see an osteopathic diploma on your wall. And I was like me. That’s not me. I don’t feel energy. I’m not I’m not that person. And I’ve been to an osteopath sort of a year or two before. And I said do you think they’re born or made? And he said, I think they’re born. And I was like, oh, well, I’m not born to do that. Too bad. So, I kind of never thought about it again. Went to the psychic. He’s like, Oh, yeah, your hands. Your hands are white light. And oh, you’re a healer? And I was like, okay, cool. Two weeks later, I signed up for that six-year part time program. And the rest is history. But when I sat in that first class, I mean, we talked about ethics, it was I remember everything about it. And I remember really crying, like I’m having tears in my eyes, because everything that they were teaching me made so much sense. And they were really talking about the cause, and the nervous system. And how symptoms, generally not the cause, and especially if it’s a chronic issue, and I was like, Ave Maria, this is what I need to know, next, to help people more, and frankly, to help myself. So that is, so that’s not answering your question. So, osteopathy is all about I care about your symptom, I really care about your health history, because that tells me the story of the body, I can tell you later, five main things that I always need to know and then I feel like I can get inside your body. And we treat, we were taught to treat on a structural level, we were taught to treat the fluids. And we were taught to treat the energy and I’m sorry, but the fluids are just magical, where we know we’re 70-80% fluidic we die very quickly without water and fluids. And that to me that being able to sense and treat and help people I mean, if you have chronic tension here forever because of your posture, or because of a car accident or any hundreds of reasons you are going to affect the fluid flow, if you can help that you are going to feel better. So, the fluid flow. And then of course the energy of course, I don’t know the fluid flow blew my socks off. And when I was learning it,
Dr. Manon 08:45
Well, I’d love to go a little more in depth with fluid actually. Because my understanding of fascia is that you can drink water, cool, but if you don’t move the fascia, then you’re not actually hydrating, and therefore it’s not going you know, you can’t bring the nutrients to the areas that are needed. You’ve got scar tissue that’s blocking structurally. So, I mean, but go on, tell me a bit more because I have not done osteopathic training and I’m just I’m curious on this. Did you study at the Ontario School of Osteo?
Kate Redford 09:24
Canadian College of Osteopathy.
Dr. Manon 09:27
The one in Ontario, correct?
Kate Redford 09:32
Correct, it started in Quebec.
Dr. Manon 09:35
Okay so you moved to…
Kate Redford 09:37
Yeah, well, in 81 or 80
Dr. Manon 09:42
I had a friend who went to that college.
Kate Redford 09:44
They have over 1000 osteopaths now.
Dr. Manon 09:54
So, let’s go on a little bit about hydration and let us know what hydration is? What do you mean by it? And why is it so important?
Kate Redford 10:05
That’s a great question. And I have to think about how I’m going to answer it. So, the fasciaonal body for people out there who have heard about fascia or haven’t heard about fascia. Fascia is, to me, it’s like saran wrap around every single structure in the body. You can think of it around every single muscle fiber, every single muscle, every single bone, every single organ, it’s even around all your arteries. So, it’s everywhere. And then if you think of the fascia as saran wrap, which is pretty easy to, it’s fragile. And if you can think of 100 different spider webs all intertwined, wrapping around every single tissue in your body, and then you yank on one end of it, because you broke your ankle when you were 18. Or you had a bad concussion when you were 12. Playing hockey or, there’s a million ways to create tension in the body at any age. And then you can create an actual anchor point in the fascia. And sometimes people’s body release it really well and adapt really well. And after too many whacks, people’s bodies don’t adapt super well. So how does hydration fit with all of that, it’s going to move better, the better your fluids that are movement moving. I to be honest, think more about the fluidic body. I don’t really think about it as hydration as I do, how your lymphatic system is working, how all the fluids in your body are working together. And we’re taught that emotions are held in that fluid. So, it’s a big topic. And yes, it’s about hydration. So, I apologize for maybe not answering it
Kate Redford 12:04
But after treatment, where you are very focused on the actual body, definitely are always telling them to drink more water, right, because then you want to maintain that motion. And like you said, that’s how you’re going to do it. There’s another layer, when I think about fluids, is I want to see that whole fluidic body. I mean, fluids are everywhere in our body. And we are taught with our hands to feel where they’re not moving well. So, to get them moving better in a person can be so rewarding for you as the practitioner and the person because it’s just a level that maybe they haven’t been treated on. And for a lot of people, they can get a lot of success through that.
Dr. Manon 12:53
Well, I think, yeah, we’re on this similar page on the understanding of that, because once you touch the body, and you allow the fascia to release, it directly allows the fluids to move, right. So, it’s really literally intertwined, but I love your spider analogy. I think that’s great
Kate Redford 13:19
You have to figure out ways to make it because it’s so funny because people will say about osteopathy, it’s a very light touch, people will say, oh, my gosh, what did you do? And I’ll repeat this, maybe three, four times to the same person and they’ll still describe it as I don’t know. But that’s okay. It’s just outside of the box, right? Yeah, I try with analogies.
Dr. Manon 13:40
Well, we live in a society where simple things that work seem like that can’t be true, right?
Kate Redford 13:48
And especially if you can barely feel it and coming from, I had to really unlearn. Oh, I had one of my best buddies in school was a naturopath. And she had taken some cranial sacral courses, which is part of what we learned in osteopathy. Her hands were like, I thought magic, because she would just touch you like this was heavenly. But I was touching like that. She’d be like, oh, and I’m like, oh, yeah, I can’t do anything.
Dr. Manon 14:18
It’s such a different perspective on the power of touch, literally, right? It’s, you know, it’s one massage is more mechanistic. And as if we’re working on the body, that’s how I distinguish it with Bowen and I say, well, we work with the body. So, it’s kind of a different subtlety. We still use touch, but it’s light.
Kate Redford 14:48
100% and when I, again sitting in that, learning of osteopathy, the philosophy of you’re going to just help their body do it.
Dr. Manon 15:05
So, the training in the schools in Canada because I know I taught when I went to France, I taught osteopaths Bowen therapy, so some of them were really strong and, and doing quite harsh work harsh in my mind and others were barely touching and I’m like, I couldn’t figure out what osteopathy is. And then you know, when I came to Canada, I noticed that here, sometimes you have to be a medical doctor, or at least in the States, and I’m like, okay, so this is a division away from chiropractic, which, more or less believes, again that we do things to the body? was the school principal, then from here, what is the philosophy?
Kate Redford 16:07
Oh, it’s beautiful. The main thing is that the body will heal itself, as you so eloquently said, and that we have forming principles, and one is structure governs function. So, if I have chronic tension in here affecting my lung, because I can have tension in my lungs, yes, you can, not just your shoulder. Yeah, in your organs. Our belief is that tension will affect function. If we can then decrease the tension structure will govern function, if the structure has less tension, the function will be better. It’s very simple, and, frankly, makes a lot of sense. That’s number one.
Kate Redford 16:54
Number two is that the body is always going towards homeostasis and balance, which Hallelujah, it is. And number three, the rule of the arteries absolute. So, it goes back to the fluidics, the fluid, if your cells are not getting proper fluid exchange proper oxygen and getting away the waste that’s on a cellular level, it’s not going to function as well. It’s very simple. And then number four is the body is working as a whole as a unit.
Dr. Manon 17:38
What about that third category of first rate of which hydration was number two? And you said the third is energy? What is the vision of energy? Because in my training, certified and acknowledged by, nurses and by chiropractors and naturopathic physicians etc., etc., the word energy, even though, you know, I don’t know, like Chinese medicine certainly in which is well looked at, the studies are all over the map in the sense of, we know that it follows the meridian lines follow many of the fascia lines, there’s definitely some parallel there. But we’re officially not really to talking about energy. So how does, how do you? Or how does your school approach energy? What is energy?
Kate Redford 18:43
Well, luckily, my school, my school is not regulated by the government yet. So luckily, I got the real deal. Because whenever it gets regulated, the course material will change.
Commercial Break 18:57
Hi, it’s Dr. Manon and I just wanted to take a moment commercial break, to ask you to subscribe to my podcast, and kindly leave a comment if you’re enjoying this. And also, just to let you know, I have tips for people in health looking for solutions to some variety of issues. It’s more like an attitude of health. And they’re entertaining short videos. And that’s, you can find those under drmanonbolliger.com/tip. The link is here. And I look forward to hearing from you.
Kate Redford 19:42
So, I feel very blessed that I got the teaching I got, just because of the world we live in, in the medical model being very well looked at. So again, it was interesting for three years of the course the first three years it’s all structural. So, we’re really looking at the bone and that’s not in the organs but as a structure. And then in fourth and fifth year, we learn the fluids. And then we do a thesis in sixth year. And then we’re told, we’re taught to feel energy and fifth year, here and there. And then we’re sad. It’s continuing education courses. And there’s this brilliant woman, of course, at our school, who is really good at teaching it, because can you imagine trying to teach that? So again, I’ve taken many of her courses. she teaches it, as there’s different layers of the energy. So, there’s the EMF, there’s the more and to be honest, there’s two more, and they’ve left my brain right now. And she tells us how to feel it. So, my answer to you is they really don’t talk a lot about it. until later and probably because you need to get your hands on.
Dr. Manon 21:12
when I first learned I didn’t invent Bowen therapy, it was Tom Bowen who came up with it. And then I contributed massively to it and brought in the trauma component and the integration of mind body and all of that stuff. Because that was my passion. But I know when I first took my first course, you know, I first of all, I’m dyslexic, so fine. Left, right, all that kind of stuff, where to stand how to do what is like, oh, my God, it was really difficult, and in fact, the fellow that was training me, Ozzie kicked me out of the class, he said, there’s really no point you doing this?
Kate Redford 21:57
Wow, just wow.
Dr. Manon 21:59
Give a person a challenge. I don’t think I quite consciously did that. But unconsciously, I’m sure it was a driver. But anyhow, so that was, it took me a while in practice, to develop the aptitude to go beyond the mechanics of the doing of it, where you can actually feel what’s going on? And, you know, at this stage, I’m like, I’m playing around with I’m a psychic……..Literally why not?
Kate Redford 22:45
Ask the question, see what you get.
Dr. Manon 22:47
But well, the answer is yes. But it’s all levels of perception, even depth of perception, which the first one is to feel and most people they touch, but they touch as in putting in energetically, touch, right? Whereas if you receive touch when you look at the piezoelectric effect in your………. little all these things, but we can explain. As you move away, you feel more. Right, you actually can feel significantly more. So, after 30 years of practice, it’s really not hard to have a person come in, I can see what’s going on. Absolutely. And, then it’s interesting, it would be so untrue to say that there’s some level of energetic perception. It’s not possible not to be there. and yet, we can’t really talk like,……..except for my own show. I understand that some professions have chosen to separate the two as if it can be separated. I’m going to jump let’s talk about your oneness. What is what is this? What is that?
Kate Redford 24:25
So, for instance, it’s a really an intention. Because I know it’s there. from being able to treat patients the privilege of treating patients every day, you know, it’s their feeling, and they feel it. And what I was going to say, a second ago, as I was kind of interrupting you is, when my patients asked me about fascia, fluids, I feel like I can have an analogy. I can explain it, I can, but when people say What are you doing, and I’m in the energetic body. Not that again, you can separate them. But that’s the intent. And that’s what’s coming up. I always say I don’t, I can’t explain it, I just know when it’s, I just know when it’s right. And that’s me, that’s what we’re taught in school. So again, with Chinese medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, you’ve all probably heard it chi, right? And that’s how they explained. That’s how what they call their energetic part, the chi getting the chi flowing. And what I was taught was, it’s called vitality. So again, I’m assessing with my hands constantly, with your vitality, your body’s ability to heal itself, low vitality, I got to work with your brutality before I work on your shoulder, because I’m not going to stay. So, when I go into the energetic body, it’s very challenging for me to put it into words. And that, to me, has taught me x theory essentially, about the Oneness about how we’re connected, how we’re all connected to nature to work. We know this, and its science, and it’s all in there with the metaphysical world.
Dr. Manon 26:57
Well, even the things you can see like the sun, extremely bright. But it’s an experience. how do you describe what your interaction of your body experience is? It’s challenging. I mean, you can say enteroception okay, that’s what the body feels inside. But there’s this connection to everything.
Kate Redford 27:35
And the cool thing is, is the person feels it? They’re asking for words. What is that? What is that?
Dr. Manon 27:47
And it’s a shared experience, well, imagining it’s the same, but one of the thrills I’ve had in practice is that it empowers people because they go, wow, my body did that. Oh, wow. like crazy, right? Yeah, exactly. And it’s like, wow, you know, and we’re not trained to think that our bodies are so marvelous. And so perfect.
Kate Redford 28:22
Well, people, they say, well explain vitality to me, and I say, oh, it’s like chi I just say what I just said, it’s like, we measure it as your body’s ability to heal itself. I feel it as an expansion and retraction. And we go deeper. It’s God, it’s, you know, like, what is what is that? That’s connected? So?
Dr. Manon 28:48
So, oh my goodness, we’re just about at a time to say, well, you have five questions, or should we have everyone hanging what they are? But do you have a something I believe I saw you have something that people can connect with you to find out those five questions ?
Kate Redford 29:17
Yeah, I just wrote an article about it on my Facebook page
Dr. Manon 29:20
Okay, that’s where I saw the five questions, I believe. Yeah, let me just see what you had. Have you had any past traumas, big falls, emotional traumas, car accidents, concussions, or sports injuries? Are you including in that emotional trauma? Okay. Number two, do you have trouble sleeping? Number three Have you had multiple surgeries, and there, the reason for that is because of scar tissue,
Dr. Manon 30:04
And then what is your energy level? On average throughout your day? And why is that important?
Kate Redford 30:11
Because that a lot of times I put my hands on someone and I say, are you tired all the time? They say yes. Whether or not they sleep well. So, we can have different types of nervous systems where you actually do sleep. But doesn’t matter, you are still tired? And you can be tired, obviously, because you’re not sleeping well. Yeah, that’ll affect your vitality, obviously.
Dr. Manon 30:31
And the last question you have is, do you take medications? Why is that significant?
Kate Redford 30:36
it’ll affect mortality. And the longer I want to know how long you’ve been on them, and I want to know about sleep, because then I feel like it can get more inside your nervous system. Because the second we are having trouble with sleep for many years, our nervous system wouldn’t have been very out of balance for very long.
Dr. Manon 30:55
yeah, I guess that’s the same as well. You have to start there. You got a balance and put people back in parasympathetic. Well, it’s been an absolute pleasure to have you on this call and tons of information. I think we’re going to get people understanding the importance of touch which is perfect during lockdown. People are like, desperate to get touch. You know. It’s so essential whether your primary health care or not, it is primarily essential. I can tell you I don’t know about you know where you are. But we have liquor stores open as, as primary would it what do they call them essential services…… is that an essential service!
Kate Redford 31:52
Dr. Manon 31:57
Kate Redford 31:59
Thank you for joining us. For more information, go to DrManonBolliger.com.
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