to complete, and and this is where having a therapy therapy background really helps. I assess that it’s not an intelligence thing and it’s not a strategy thing. It’s a hesitation thing based on, which I will explore generally with them. You know, this seems like this is a hesitation based on something within you, and then I kind of hold the space to see if that lands. And if they say yes, it is. I find fill in the blank being assertive, being being directive a struggle, and they might say it’s something I work on in therapy. So it’ll pop up in that way. Whereas in the past, the the environment was work is work, and personal is personal.

 

Manon Bolliger  08:00

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, yeah. Interesting, yeah. So, so, what do you find are the biggest, like, um, I guess hang up is the word I that’s coming to me, but there may be a better one that people have in communicating in those sort of milieux, like what what is it that holds most people back in your experience?

 

Karol Ward  08:27

Both in that environment and even when I work in life individually, is a couple of things. One is there’s a fear of assertion, asserting one’s opinion, asserting one’s thoughts, so there’s a holding back. What if I say the wrong thing? I think it comes back to self-criticism. I don’t know enough. I’ll say it wrong. I I can’t speak as well as somebody else. I compare and despair. So it’s that category of fear of self-criticism. The other thing that that comes up is people, and it really goes back to that last one. I should be speaking a certain way, and I don’t, and therefore something is wrong with me. My big thing is you get to communicate from your personality, your style, in your way. You may need to learn how to slow down, eliminate ums and uhs and words that are cluttering up your delivery, but you don’t have to become like anybody else in the room, and you can still be effective.

 

Manon Bolliger  09:43

Yeah, well, no, that that makes sense. I mean, I’m looking at it personally because why not? Why

 

Karol Ward  09:52

not? And I’m going to share a story. I I wrote about this. I actually one one time watched a. Practitioner, a health practitioner being interviewed on a local television show, and the host said to the practitioner, “You just exploring the subject. Said something like, “I hear that eating natural peanut butter is better than the store bought bought brand. It was something like that, and the practitioner said, “No, that’s that’s not good. You should be eating almond butter. And the host was sort of, “Where do I go with this? So, so they got into a conflict right away, and I thought to myself, “There’s a way to communicate

 

Manon Bolliger  10:42

with a

 

Karol Ward  10:42

host like yourself, or where you match the person, right? You know that we all know

 

Manon Bolliger  10:48

this. The

 

Karol Ward  10:48

practitioners know this. You don’t say to someone, “No, no, you’re doing it wrong. You say, “I can see your point, or “Yes, natural peanut butter is better than a commercial brand, and here’s another option as well. So there’s something about being able to relax into yourself, which then allows you to have attunement to another person, which allows you then to communicate and connect. I’m all about connection.

 

Manon Bolliger  11:21

Yeah, no, I think that’s a that’s interesting. I think I did learn that eventually, just because I couldn’t get out of my own way. It’s like I am who I am, and I really I want to understand people, I want to have you know. I want to have a discussion on the same subject. So let’s get clear what it is we’re discussing, what aspect of it, you know. So, and I think it comes naturally as a therapist. You’re listening, so your listening skills are relatively good.

 

Karol Ward  12:03

Yes.

 

Manon Bolliger  12:03

So therefore, the communication on the level of misunderstanding that that’s easier to get over. I mean, it’s it can be worked, but it it is also it can be very natural, right?

 

Karol Ward  12:18

Yes, I agree with that. The

 

Manon Bolliger  12:20

other part, where you know somebody could say it better, or you know, what if they’re yeah they’re more read in this particular subject, or all of the excuses, you know, where maybe your opinion is, you know, actually, that’s why I wrote books. So I decided I’m really going to push this. I did a TEDx talk as well, and I wrote four books. And now my thoughts are out there. That’s it. They’re in paper. They’re out there. Have I changed my mind on some subjects. Yes, have I gotten further educated? Yes, you know. Would I say it differently? Some some of the points, you know. But it’s it’s okay because now it’s like, oh, I finally did that step. But it took me writing it. Otherwise, I would be mumbling in the corner, wanting to say what somebody else was saying.

 

Karol Ward  13:27

And we all have our we all have our areas where that we get our voice out.

 

Manon Bolliger  13:32

Right, right.

 

Karol Ward  13:34

I love to speak literally presentations. I have written books. It’s not my natural thing, but like you, I wanted to share information without my thoughts.

 

Manon Bolliger  13:48

Yeah, no, and and the thing is, they can be you. You can do both, right? But I think therapeutically, the writing, the committing of on paper, is what allowed the verbal to come out.

 

Karol Ward  14:04

That’s interesting. Yes, it freed it up. Is what you’re saying?

 

Manon Bolliger  14:07

Yeah, because it’s not that I’m good at writing. It’s that it’s the commitment part that a thought can be shared, and yet can be changed. It can be wrong. It can be adapted to new circumstances, new realities, right? It’s it’s being less attached to to the ego in that sense, right? To what it means. It’s just a thought. Yes,

 

Karol Ward  14:34

just a thought. I agree. And again, it’s interesting that we’re talking about this because part of my it’s it’s an emerging focus. Meaning, I didn’t go into these environments going that this is what’s going to happen is to normalize worry, anxiety, and fear in those environments. Presencing for someone, normalizing, reflecting back-it’s okay. It’s okay for you to feel that way. I’ve seen it before. Now let’s talk it through. Work in a strategy. So it’s-it’s that-that’s how I’m hearing what you’re saying. It is really allowing people to digest what I’m saying and normalizing their experience, right? Whatever they’re going through,

 

Manon Bolliger  15:28

yeah. Which is, I think, it’s this is why it was easier to start with step two. Not that you had them in that order, but you know, the the the desire to connect First, and then you know, get more elaborate with the style of communication and the clarity of communication. It’s it’s sort of yeah, but if the heart’s not there, I think it’s very hard to jump that step.

 

Karol Ward  15:59

It is, and I and again, the heart opening in certain environments you can’t be wide open. It’s part of it would be too hurtful, but there can be a opening and assessing and can I share more? Can I share more of who I am in this environment? Because whether you’re in a therapy office, a naturopath office, a corporate environment, people are lonely, and they want to connect. They want to connect, and the ability to connect comes from sharing of oneself and to normalize that you can share yourself in your own way, and then learn some ways to connect people. To people really like that.

 

Manon Bolliger  16:46

So so, how long were you in practice before you really felt the calling? I guess to to share.

 

Karol Ward  16:57

I love that you said calling. I love that you said calling because I was in private practice for over 20 years. There was a what’s a dovetail, a crossover. There, I was doing both for a while. When I had the experience of speaking and giving presentations, I like this. I really like this format, and that is a calling of mine to share information from that skill set in those types of environments. And then from there, the the corporate coaching evolved, and I saw that I could use my therapeutic skills and also my communication training to combine them, as we’ve been talking about. But I love that. I love calling because I think calling is something that, for a while, it because I couldn’t. I was like, I’m a good therapist. I don’t. I don’t mind saying that. I was good at

 

Manon Bolliger  17:59

Manon Bolliger here, and I want to thank you for taking actionable steps towards engaging your healing journey and helping others discover their path by watching, sharing, subscribing, and reviewing these podcasts. Every review and share helps spread the word on these different perspectives and choices and options for healing, and to thank you, I’d like to invite you to sign up to my free seven sequence email tips on health and healing for everyday life, and you can go to healerscafe.com tips. Thanks so much.

 

Karol Ward  18:44

But I did, but it wasn’t lighting me up. It wasn’t lighting me up enough. And then when I started speaking, I would leave those events going, woo, lit up, lit up, and and kept paying attention to the calling.

 

Manon Bolliger  19:00

Yeah, well, I say calling too because to leave a practice it takes a lot, right? I think, anyways, you know. So it

 

Karol Ward  19:11

does.

 

Manon Bolliger  19:11

It’s got to be something calling you. It has

 

Karol Ward  19:14

to be. It has to be, and as you know, it’s it’s a change and a loss of an identity, but it is a transformation. I saw Stephen Levine speak years ago. I’m based in New York City. Spoke at the the Goal School Ethical Culture, and he was speaking about one of his books on death and dying. And my father had just died, and I was trying to understand it, and people were talking about change. And he said, “Your life’s work changes.

 

Manon Bolliger  19:50

What

 

Karol Ward  19:50

you did originally

 

Manon Bolliger  19:52

is

 

Karol Ward  19:52

going to change, and to go with that change, and it’s okay to go with that change. And there is that period of.” Relief, grief, and then change. Yeah, and that’s what that’s that was the big deal. Is oh, I I’m no longer the therapist. I’m this other thing. So I agree with you. It’s a big.

 

Manon Bolliger  20:15

Yeah, yeah. I’m I’m definitely in a transition now for a while. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because I I had my practice for 30 years, and then because of certain policies and things in Canada in BC where I I practiced, I could no longer do what I was doing without abiding to ethics that I did not have, so I I believe in informed consent and you know things like of that nature. So I I couldn’t do what I couldn’t do. So so then I I had to well it was a combination of resigning but also not playing along with something I just will not be seen in. You know, it’s just it’s wrong. Yes, and so we’ll see what happens with all this. But now it’s um, I can see because Bowen therapy is a big part of my life as well, I have a school and I teach it, and it was a big part of what I do in my practice. And now, with all the technology that is resurfacing, a lot of it has been in existence, but we’re getting to see it again. These med beds are coming, and meds. What is

 

Karol Ward  21:46

that?

 

Manon Bolliger  21:47

It’s basically a cellular regeneration through frequency, way more advanced than what, in general, we know. But the knowledge has already been there. It’s just you know how sometimes knowledge gets destroyed for usually for monetary reasons. You know anyway it’s a it’s a bit of a dark world if you look at it on one level, and it’s hard to miss that level when you’re in it when you see it. But anyway, this is all coming out again, and it’s been very interesting because my whole life is so tactile. It’s it’s about connection, it’s about heart, it’s about touch, and this is now in people healing from all kinds of conditions and cancers and whatever in in like half an hour in this technology that I barely understand. I mean, I understand frequency. I get the idea. You know, it’s not. I mean, the concept’s been around, but there seems to be so much that people are going to need to be able to relax into that environment, or maybe not, right? Like, well,

 

Karol Ward  23:15

maybe not. You’re right.

 

Manon Bolliger  23:16

Like they’re looking new world, you know.

 

Karol Ward  23:19

Yeah, people are people are craving connection and contactileness,

 

Manon Bolliger  23:26

right? But here it’s almost the opposite because you’re in a little, in a, in a spaceship basically. So there’s like no touch, and you’re on your own, right? And I mean, you’re. I’m not saying there’s no nobody in the room, but it’s um it’s it’s all the opposite of what I’ve always

 

Speaker 1  23:49

done, and

 

Manon Bolliger  23:50

yet I feel extremely called to really participate in this. Well, because of the results. I mean, you know, if you can heal that many people that quickly, you know, and stop this chronic disease management that we’ve been under, I mean, I hear it. That’s my calling. So, so it’s it’s an interesting kind of world, and you know how to step into that, and yeah, it’s a it’s a dance, right? It’s

 

Karol Ward  24:26

and you sounds like one the calling you’re you’re listening to the calling, and you’re open to seeing because you’re open. Information will come to you in forms, many forms, different forms, dreams, people, symbols, right? It shows up in in many different ways.

 

Manon Bolliger  24:48

No, and it’s funny. Like dreams, it’s true. It’s like I have, you know, different types of scenarios playing out in dreams, just because it’s not manifest yet. You know, as in I’ve. Pictures, but I haven’t seen one. I haven’t touched one. I haven’t tried one. So it’s it’s very interesting. And this is a Japan. Actually, is the first country now that will be bringing that into their entire population. They have also have the eldest population, and in September they it will be in every hospital.

 

Karol Ward  25:25

I’m going to pay attention to that now. I’m trying to energy

 

Speaker 2  25:29

work,

 

Karol Ward  25:29

and years ago, years ago, I I got under an orgone blanket created by developed by Wilhelm Reich, who was the father of somatic therapy, yes, and it was it was intense. And my a therapist I knew had been given it was a container. It was I think it was

 

Manon Bolliger  25:56

a

 

Karol Ward  25:57

triangle container, and he had it in a room of his apartment, and had to and had to remove it because he was just being bombarded with energy. So there are all of these modalities. Yeah, you’re right. Have been in existence, and now I hear from you coming out from being underground.

 

Manon Bolliger  26:19

Yeah, no. So it’ll be, it’ll change our world. That’s for sure. You know, and and how we relate to it. You know, and you know, it’s it’s easy to say, oh, technology, it’s all bad. It’s not. It’s it’s a thing, and we have to understand who’s it. I think it’s who’s in charge of it, is a big part of it. You know, it’s like if it’s centralized or decentralized, that’s hugely different. You know what the damage that can happen, right? And I think it’s um it’s a time where we really have to evolve quickly to stay, you know, up with what’s happening because it’s feels like it’s going so fast,

 

Karol Ward  27:03

and what comes to mind as well, and we have to be able to hold on to ourselves.

 

Manon Bolliger  27:08

Well, that’s it. Hold

 

Karol Ward  27:10

on to ourselves. Does this feel right? What am I drawn to? Does this feel wrong? I mean, exactly.

 

Manon Bolliger  27:17

And that’s why that first level of, you know, you really-if you really want to know the other to communicate-that keeps you grounded, and the rest is kind of-it’s just skill sets. It’s just or stories, things we can let go of or move through. It’s-it’s a different nature, you know. But all we really have is ourselves, you know.

 

Karol Ward  27:40

Absolutely, I wrote about something where I shared that when I was first in private practice, I was energetically and verbally trampling all over my patients, wanting to fix them.

 

Manon Bolliger  27:54

Right, right.

 

Karol Ward  27:55

It was so hard for me to sit in their discomfort and their need to process. And that therapist I mentioned, he was my supervisor, said, “You have to fix it right away. Just sit there in silence and match and match and match the person, and you’ll then you’ll be led to the next thing. It doesn’t mean that we throw our skill set out the door. We’re constantly assessing and evaluating, but we let the patient lead, and that’s the same with communication. We let the person lead. That doesn’t mean we get trampled on in a in a dynamic, but cues and listening and paying attention lead us to connection.

 

Manon Bolliger  28:43

Yeah. Well, it’s interesting. It’s actually a principle by Samuel Hanneman in homeopathy of mirroring like cures like, right? So holding the likeness is allowing the transformation to take place, which is interesting. It’s very

 

Karol Ward  29:05

true. And as a complete side note, but very much related, when I was in my 20s, I worked for a naturopath in New York City. I was his assistant. I would sometimes do for patients who couldn’t do it for themselves. I was the surrogate muscle tester,

 

Manon Bolliger  29:24

right,

 

Karol Ward  29:24

right for different remedies, and so I learned a lot. It it was part of my exploration of somatic therapy, and it it was another piece of that training,

 

Manon Bolliger  29:34

right? Yeah, yeah, no, it’s fascinating. I realize our time is almost out, and I absolutely need to ask you a question. So you said this is what had most impact, and your second point is what I’m going to ask you on. I had an anesthesia injury which opened me up spiritually. Could you share that? Do you mind?

 

Karol Ward  30:02

Not at all. About let’s say four years ago, I had unexpected surgery, and I’m a very very sensitive person. I I feel an aspirin enter my system. I rarely take things, and I had anesthesia, and I asked for certain things not to be used. I didn’t want a benzodiazepine used. I didn’t want an opiate used. Yeah, but I’m not an anesthesiologist, so I didn’t know that they would use a steroid, use propanol, something else, and I became incapacitated. I became completely mentally and physically incapacitated. I was bedridden for three months.

 

Manon Bolliger  30:50

Jeez,

 

Karol Ward  30:51

could not go outside because it was overwhelming. My nervous system was shocked, and I felt very abandoned spiritually. It’s spirituality has been an area that I continually try to develop, and I just was railing at God, universe, and then when I came out of it, it took six months, three months of intense symptoms. Then symptoms dropped off one by one, and when I came out of it, it was like the mist opening up for me. I realized that on some level, I stayed with it and went through the process because it was excruciating, and I had I had anhedonia. I don’t know if you’re familiar. Absence of joy, absence of feeling, different than than depression, just absent. So I would flat, flat, and when that lifted, I thought something kept me going. Something kept me going. I’m a determined person anyway, but but this really tested my

 

Manon Bolliger  31:57

life force.

 

Karol Ward  31:58

Yeah, my life force very much so. I mean, I I was reaching out to holistic practitioners, and it it my body had to heal on its own. It had to go through a process, and so when I say it opened me up spiritually, I I found myself, of course, with a deeper appreciation when when we go through something like that, and I found myself experiencing more, what I call synchronicity, which I’ve had my whole life. I’ve always had the ability to pick up on things that opened up even more. And I, I, and this sounds very simple, but I realized that someone was on my side, because some people don’t make it through crises.

 

Manon Bolliger  32:44

Yeah, not exactly. Yeah, yeah. Where the synchronicity is that this is not your time.

 

Karol Ward  32:52

This is not my time.

 

Manon Bolliger  32:53

Yeah,

 

Karol Ward  32:54

this is not my time.

 

Manon Bolliger  32:56

Yeah.

 

Karol Ward  32:56

Yes, and I heal from what I had the Surgery from I it was it was not spontaneous healing, but I healed

 

Manon Bolliger  33:05

and

 

Karol Ward  33:05

no other treatments were recommended and I couldn’t go. I couldn’t go, so I my body and mind came back online and something was something or somebody was in my

 

Manon Bolliger  33:19

com. Yeah, very good. That’s quite the experience. Yes.

 

Karol Ward  33:28

So I, I really, it’s made me more compassionate and open and sensitive and protective of my energy because, as we know, just because we care, we’re in the healing profession. We can give, give, give, give, give, and one of the most important thing when I work with practitioners is have to set the boundary for yourself. It’s okay to say no. Not every patient is the right patient. Not every situation is the right situation. And in my case, even with the holistic treatments I was turning to, not everything that is good for you is good for you in at that time.

 

Manon Bolliger  34:05

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s a great unwinding and and personalizing. You know, it’s true because it’s it’s you can have something that works beautifully at one moment, but not at all at another, and you think, “Well, did the therapy not work, or was I not ready for it, or was it not the right time in my timeline? Exactly. Exactly. I don’t know. I don’t

 

Karol Ward  34:32

know. And sometimes doesn’t matter. You’ll you’ll get the answer later on. Later on, you’ll go. Oh, that’s why.

 

Manon Bolliger  34:38

Yeah. There’s a lot of later on happening in therapy. So much we don’t know. Yes. Anyway, Carol, thank you so much for spending this time and explaining partially your work. I think we did cover it a little bit.

 

Karol Ward  34:56

We did cover it and talked about how healing shows up in many. And yes, it’s been wonderful to talk about some of those reasons that I like what I do and had switched. Yes, I agree.

 

Manon Bolliger  35:09

And then I noticed too, you have a free five minute body mind audio download. Is that still available for people? It is

 

Karol Ward  35:16

still available. Yes, it’s it’s five minutes. It’s it’s something you can do in your car and the train and set to some very soothing, original music, and it’s it’s just really to calm things down,

 

Manon Bolliger  35:31

right? And also cultivating confidence and calm. I mean, both. Yes,

 

Karol Ward  35:36

once if you’re scattered and going, what do I do? I don’t. What do I just to calm first? Calm, not not Zen maybe, but calmer, so that you can then feel more confident.

 

Manon Bolliger  35:48

Okay, good. Well, thank you very much, and yeah, I’ll let you know when it when it airs.

 

Karol Ward  35:54

Perfect. Thanks so much.

Ending

Thank you for joining us at the Healers Cafe. If you haven’t already done so, please like, comment and subscribe with notifications on as I post a new podcast every Wednesday with tons of useful information and tips for natural healing that you won’t want to miss, go to DrManonBolliger.com/tips for more tips