could be an individual private practice, but then they would have to also spend a lot of their energy on marketing and outreach and developing relationships with referral sources and dealing with insurance companies and that type of thing. So the. We try to give them, you know, an opportunity to just focus on the clinical work. And we also have a very good clinical collaboration, you know, peer support, regular meetings to go over cases, to go over therapeutic approaches, to get continuing education credits. Yeah, so I think that’s those would be the main advantages. Yeah.

Manon Bolliger  05:38

I mean, it does seem, in every field, you know, there’s some people that are okay with all of that extra work, but others, it’s just, they just want to do what they love, and the rest is more like a burden, you know, and it then you do wonder, you know, is it, is it really worth doing it times 40? Or, you know, when you’re 40, maybe there’s a system that makes it much easier to to handle, you know, right? Yeah, now, so that’s interesting, so, but the things that connected everyone is so the support the clinic offers, the management of it, which, I guess after 25 years you’ve got it down pretty, pretty tight. Are you one of the main or the main owner of this concept? Yeah, yeah. And has that always?

Aaron Gilbert  06:36

Sorry? We have a great practice director is who does a lot of the support work and manages the practice and works with the therapists and make sure everybody is is ready to do their best work. So she does.

Manon Bolliger  07:06

So what’s the journey, then, for, like, the the typical patient? Because on my podcast, I have both, you know, medical, like doctors and practitioners of all types. And then I also have, you know, the the end user, which we could all be at one point or another. So maybe you could sort of explain what it’s like. You know, when people phone, then what happens, like, what’s journey? How do they know who they get? Do they pick them? How do you work all that out?

Aaron Gilbert  07:41

Yeah, that’s a great question. Yeah, and we it’s very important to we feel that the kind of therapeutic relationship needs to begin instantly, you know, meaning that it needs it doesn’t begin at the first session. It begins at the very first outreach. So when they reach out to us, our attitude is, if a person’s made the decision that they want to pursue therapy, that’s a you know, that’s a meaningful decision for them. They’ve probably gone through a process to do that and to actually reach out, and once they do, they really want to hear back, you know, they really want to get started. And so we make every effort to respond as close to immediately as possible, and certainly within a day. Because, you know, we understand that they’re looking for somebody, and they’re looking for somebody now. And yes, they will, sometimes they will go through the website and find a few therapists that they particularly like, and they will ask for them by name. But more often, they will kind of, they will want to ask us to place them with to make the match, you know, to make therapeutic match based on what they’re looking to do and based on the clinicians specialties, etc. And so that’s what we will we will do. There’s a choice if they want to see a female therapist or a male therapist, or simply the first available or no preference. And you know, it’s our job to kind of match them up with the best person we possibly can

Manon Bolliger  09:57

and and the. People, are they mostly psychotherapist, or it’s exclusively psychotherapist? Or do you have like somatic you know, there’s so many different angles towards mental health, right, right?

Aaron Gilbert  10:14

Well, they’re all licensed therapists in Massachusetts. But of course, they have a really wide range of approaches, you know. So yes, certainly is some somatic therapy. There’s all different kinds of therapeutic approaches, but yes, it would all come under the rubric of psychotherapy.

Aaron Gilbert  10:40

Yeah, yeah, that’s right. So, yeah, all Massachusetts licensed therapist,

Manon Bolliger  10:52

okay, and I was looking a little bit at your journey. I don’t know if you want to elaborate a bit more on that, but you write in your bio, my journey began with a quiet but persistent dissatisfaction. And I’m just curious. I mean, there must be many people with that feeling, but that don’t identify it as it’s like, Oh, something they have to cope with or to live with. So can you sort of explore a little bit or share your experience with that feeling, this persistent dissatisfaction?

Aaron Gilbert  11:39

Well, yeah, I think, I think maybe that was referring to what I was saying before, of doing a variety of types of work and type of profession were kind of meeting the needs of, You know, generating some income and and being a I see, okay, but, but not, not really your path, not my path, and not having sort of, what I felt was real intrinsic value and moment and worth In the each day. You know, right, right, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s

Manon Bolliger  12:27

yeah, because you then say you felt disconnected from intrinsic meaning, but you’re meaning the really the connection to what you’re doing, correct, right. Okay, and how important do you find that people have a clarity about the meaning of what they’re doing? Like, how important is that to healthy mental health?

Aaron Gilbert  12:58

Yeah, I have come to, you know, I, I’ve come to find that is one of the most important things in life. It might be something that people get an appreciation for a little bit later in the in their journey. You know, middle age and beyond, but not necessarily. I do think that that developing clear sense of personal values and personal priorities and identifying as a as I said, things that have intrinsic meaning and value to each individual person. So that the satisfaction of knowing that even if things didn’t go well today, or even if things were kind of boring today or unproductive or no major headlines, if you’re, if you’re, if you’re, if you’re acting according to your personal values, to your personal mission, to your personal direction, there can be real satisfaction, you know, and that’s one of the things that I try to do recently with some of My work, is help people to identify what are their what are their personal values? What is, what does comprise a life of meaning for them and and how to move that ball forward incrementally every day.

Commercial Break  14:42

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Aaron Gilbert  15:51

You know, because I think that you know the word happiness is, I think, not the word that people are really going for being happy. Of course, we all want to be happy, but we need to define what that really means, because if we kind of leave it just out there as oh well, everyone knows what it means to be happy, but that’s not really true. I think true happiness comes from satisfaction, personal satisfaction, a sense that we’re going in the right direction, a sense that that our values are aligned properly, meaning, meaning, a life of meaning is, I think, the deepest form of happiness, and helping people on that journey to identify what that means for them, specifically not what they’re told it’s supposed to mean, right, but what it really, truly is for them.

Manon Bolliger  17:11

So what do you say to so much of the sort of 30s, young, 40 year olds that are basically or this is the story they’re working, or the job. It’s a job that pays the rent or the mortgage or whatever, but they don’t it’s really not what they love. It’s not what they’re passionate about, but they feel so chained down in the system that they don’t they can’t really afford to do something different, but let’s say their values might be family or spending more time with their newborns. Or how do you deal with this prevailing societal issue on that individual basis?

Aaron Gilbert  18:09

Well, yeah, no, that’s, that’s, that’s a very good question. I mean, first, I first would want to acknowledge, you know, I first would want to hear that story for them, right if you just presented it. And I certainly agree with that, and understand it on a general sense, and certainly believe that’s pretty can be fairly pervasive, but everybody experiences that in a very you hear exactly how that person was experiencing it. I do agree, I think that that is very common and has a lot of you know, not necessarily psychological reasons attached to it, but more structural societal reasons attached to it. But anyway, you know. I think that that that can be acknowledged and that reality can be

Aaron Gilbert  19:13

present, but that doesn’t need to stop imagination, you know, and to stop

Aaron Gilbert  19:25

visualization of what is more authentic to them. And it also doesn’t need to mean that nothing can be done until you know that situation fundamentally changes, you know? I mean, I think that, for example, there are tiny things that seem tiny and innocuous, but can actually have real. Meaning if we imbue them with meaning. For example, I don’t know if somebody feels that like I get I do think it’s, it’s a personal value to kind of treat other people with dignity. You know, that’s something that I think is intrinsically good, that that’s something that I think is a part of my identity as being a good person. And so, you know, you can do that with the person you buy a cup of coffee from. You can have a meaningful just to acknowledge them in a, in a, in a human way that is intentional, you know, with a smile, with looking them in the eye, with kind of a human interaction, as opposed to just, you know, give me the caf, and it’s tiny. It’s in sort of, yeah, what’s the big deal to that? But once you identify that as, like, No, that’s a piece of who I want to be, then it actually becomes something. And so, you know, yeah, I had this terrible day at work doing this stuff I’m not interested in. It’s I feel stuck, feel trapped. But you know, I did have that moment with this person. Is something, and then it becomes something that you can kind of build on, you know. And so, obviously it’s a process, you know, but I do think that I would, I like to help people to begin to see their process, right?

Manon Bolliger  22:03

And and maybe also recognize that it’s in the small things sometimes, you know, I mean, like,

Aaron Gilbert  22:09

that’s, you know, truly, when you think about it, it’s like, that is what we do small things. I mean, that’s like, what percentage of our lives are made up with these small things? It’s probably, you know, way up in the 90. Yeah, that the headlines are what you know we how we summarize our lives. I’m the director of this, or I did this, or I this is what I this is what I’ve done. But that’s not our life, right? Those are just headlines, yeah, and that’s not where we really ultimately derive happiness or satisfaction,

Manon Bolliger  22:56

yeah? Well, it’s interesting too, because, you know, come a certain age when people retire, you know, and get all their life they’ve mentioned boring, you know, mindless job, and they could hardly wait to go home. Those are the people that end up missing it, and, you know, not acknowledging the the little parts in it that made their day good, right? And, and there’s actually, you know, there is a fair statistic of of deaths that follow that when there’s no meaning, not even in the banality of things, because you haven’t taken the time to appreciate what there is in what you’re actually doing, right, you know? So that’s kind of the other side of the spectrum, you know? It’s like, we have to find the good in what there is on some level, you know, to get through.

Aaron Gilbert  23:57

Yeah, yeah. And I think that, yes, and taking the opportunity to explore, it’s okay to not know what that is, you know, it’s okay to not know what that it’s okay to sort of like, I don’t know. I don’t know what my meaningful values are. I don’t know what you mean. I don’t even know what you mean by that. You know that that’s okay, you know that’s we can start wherever the person’s at. You know we can, we but, but I think it’s helping a person maybe, to see that that is where your life does not need to change dramatically. Have a meaningful change in perspective,

Manon Bolliger  24:51

yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it’s like, if you notice, I’m, I’m looking at your office, and I’m, that’s a very nice you. Know, yellow vase with that goes with the tree, or the tree the bird, you know, and I’m, and I’m like, oh, man, that’s a bird. That’s an, you know, it’s got some orange. I wonder if there’s an orange. So my mind is like, pleasantly, you know, observing this room. And so, you know, once you find that level of, you know, just it’s pleasant, it’s like, you know. So that’s an experience you have in the moment. And then it seems to to draw more of it, you know, it’s like, then you realize, well, you actually want a part of the way to work. And then you notice this and that, and then suddenly your life becomes more about noticing your interaction with life than the the things you do. I’m talking in Manon in truly what people would describe as mundane jobs. You know, when you’re lucky enough, or lucky chosen enough, or you’ve chosen to be in the field of helping people, I think that’s easy. I mean, there’s not a day at work that I don’t come back just fulfilled, that there’s that level of depth of human interaction. And, then, you know, I mean, yeah, and I guess you can choose that, you know, it can be an arduous path, but, you know, those are all. They are options, you know, maybe longer for some than others. But, yeah, there’s always something beautiful, at least. That’s how I, I look at my you know, my surroundings.

Aaron Gilbert  26:43

That’s, you know, and that’s, yeah, that that is great. And helping people to default to that way of thinking can be really helpful too. I do think that, you know, I do think that defaulting towards a sense of optimism and a sense of beauty is learnable. You know, it’s, I don’t know. I mean, I just, it’s, you know, there’s a strong, I think about like, almost like these team of debaters, you know, talented debaters that could one, one group is wants to say that the world is full of beauty and things to be hopeful about. And the other team of debaters is saying the world is full of ugliness and nothing, and it’s nothing to be hopeful about. It’s it’s despairing. The difference is that, you know, it feels, it feels much better to to spend more time in the hopeful, optimistic each you know you might say, Well, each side has a strong case to make, but if one side feels a much better place to live. Then why not? Why not go for that? You know, right? Why not go for that? That doesn’t mean it doesn’t. It’s not an all or nothing, you know. It doesn’t mean that we don’t slip. It doesn’t mean that we don’t go to the dark negative side. Also, that’s okay. It’s just that we’re trying to create a baseline home base to come back to and you to the best that you can. You want that home base to be like you described, where you can find some beauty in simplicity and the mundane.

Manon Bolliger  29:09

So Aaron, our time is is off. I just maybe you could let people know how they can reach you. It’ll be up on the website too, but maybe take a moment and share that that’d be great sure

Aaron Gilbert  29:23

Boston Evening Therapy com is our website. My email address is Aaron, A, A, R O N at Boston Evening Therapy com, please reach out anytime.

ENDING: 

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