Understanding the Chakra Connection to Overall Health with Dr. Mary Sanders on The Healers Café with Manon Bolliger

In this episode of The Healers Café, Manon Bolliger, FCAH, RBHT (facilitator and retired naturopath with 30+ years of practice) chats with Dr. Mary Sanders, about how as a practitioner, understanding energy and chakras can improve your patients’ outcomes.

Highlights from today’s episode include:

Dr. Mary Sanders  14:13

Because you and I are all about empowerment, how can we heal ourselves as opposed to the disempowerment of handing over that energy to somebody else’s responsibility? Right, so that’s my that’s my honor, as a medical intuitive, that’s what I got to do these days.

Dr. Mary Sanders  33:47

So, clinicians, if you’re listening to me, and you’re like, Oh, well, you mean that that patient that I’m treating for elbow pain, might be having issues with their neck in relation to their expression. That’s exactly what I’m saying.

– – – – –

Dr. Mary Sanders  42:17

I know I have to create the environment for individuals to come back into self and again, through their self-do the regulation to increase their levels of consciousness, in order to hold space for all that is happening within this world. And really, that’s the most important thing that we can do is to come back to yourself, and to trust yourself, and listen to the information that you are receiving.


Dr. Mary has over 25+ years of experience as a self-employed business woman and consultant … AND 15 years ago, she experienced burnout firsthand and crashed hard! At the time, she didn’t have the necessary tools or resources to navigate the difficult period in her life, so she panicked and ran away to the other side of the world. Now, she is wholeheartedly committed to supporting women who want to transform the way they show up in this world and experience thriving health, happiness, and purpose, utilizing the tools of energy medicine, chiropractic, and positive psychology.

Dr. Mary is the host of the internationally acclaimed podcast Energy Medicine where she talks about all things that align the mind, body and spirit.

Dr. Mary earned her doctorate in Chiropractic from Logan College of Chiropractic in St. Louis, MO.  She completed her Certificate in Positive Psychology from the Wholebeing Institute in Lennox, MA and studied under Dr. Tal Ben Shahar.  In addition, she completed her Masters in Intuition Medicine® from the Academy of Intuition Medicine® in Sausalito, CA and studied under Dr. Francesca McCartney.

Core purpose/passion: Dr. Mary is passionate about bridging the gap between the hard-core science and the science that has yet to be proven in physical, emotional, and spiritual healing.


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As a recently De-Registered board-certified naturopathic physician & in practice since 1992, I’ve seen an average of 150 patients per week and have helped people ranging from rural farmers in Nova Scotia to stressed out CEOs in Toronto to tri-athletes here in Vancouver.

My resolve to educate, empower and engage people to take charge of their own health is evident in my best-selling books:  ‘What Patients Don’t Say if Doctors Don’t Ask: The Mindful Patient-Doctor Relationship’ and ‘A Healer in Every Household: Simple Solutions for Stress’.  I also teach BowenFirst™ Therapy through Bowen College and hold transformational workshops to achieve these goals.

So, when I share with you that LISTENING to Your body is a game changer in the healing process, I am speaking from expertise and direct experience”.

Mission: A Healer in Every Household!

For more great information to go to her weekly blog:  http://bowencollege.com/blog

For tips on health & healing go to: https://www.drmanonbolliger.com/tips



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About The Healers Café:

Manon’s show is the #1 show for medical practitioners and holistic healers to have heart to heart conversations about their day to day lives.

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Introduction 00:04

Welcome to the Healers Café. Conversations on health and healing with Manon Bolliger. A retired and deregistered naturopathic physician with 30 plus years of experience. Here, you will discover engaging and informative conversations between experienced healers, covering all aspects of healing, the personal journey, the journey of the practitioner, and the amazing possibilities for our own body, and spirit.

Manon Bolliger  00:34

All right. Hello, and welcome to the Healers Café. And today I’m with Dr. Mary Sanders. And she has a background as a chiropractor, doing positive psychology and also using energy medicine. So, with a sort of a special interest in the body wisdom through chakras. So, I thought that this would be a perfect discussion for today. But before we go there, how did you get into the field? Like what were the telltale signs, whether it’s chiropractor or what you’re currently doing with your, I think you’re it’s like 25 years now that you’ve been self-employed, businesswoman, and consultant. So, you’re doing a lot with all these tools. So, if you could sort of bring us to the present, like, how did you get to this? That would be awesome.


Dr. Mary Sanders  01:45

Yes, I’m happy to start there. That’s, um, it’s my honor to share my story, because I would like to say Dr. M, that it was a linear process, and that I was in control 100% of the time. But we all know that that’s not how it works. But before I share my story, Dr. M, I just want to give a shout out to you and express a tremendous amount of gratitude for all the energy that you put forth over the years to help support others, not only in practitioners in training, the Bowen technique and, and incorporating and facilitating all of your years of 30 plus years in naturopathy. And I just know that that takes a tremendous amount of dedication and commitment. So, thank you for being you. And thank you for being the host of today’s show.


Manon Bolliger  02:29

Oh, thank you. You know, I realized in …


doing my own show, I’m so fascinated with other people that I happen to actually put a lot about me in the show. Some people say, “Well, who are you?” And it’s very interesting, um, I had this dream yesterday that I needed to do an interview about me. And then here you are basically doing that. So, thank you.


Dr. Mary Sanders  02:56

Yeah, no, I have to share with you. I think I’ve done over 45 interviews on my podcast, Energy Medicine, and, and it has been requested that I do a fellow cast, just because people are getting snippets of my story, but they never hear the complete thing. So maybe what we should do is I should interview you on your own podcast, and then I’ll invite you to interview me on my podcast. You know what, that sounds like a  great idea.


Manon Bolliger  03:21

Okay, let’s do it. You know, for me, it’s just sitting there and going on blah, blah, blah. It’s in discussion that everything comes up, right. I mean, that’s how I function. So yeah


Dr. Mary Sanders  03:32

So true.


Manon Bolliger  03:33

Let’s do it.


Dr. Mary Sanders  03:34

So true. Okay, so here’s my story, Dr. M, and I’m sticking to it, okay. I was born hearing impaired. And my hearing capacity is about 50% as to what a normal person would hear. And I went undiagnosed until the age of three. And I remember living on this physical plane, but also being very connected to the spiritual realm. And I knew it, I absolutely knew it. And then at some point in time, I got diagnosed. And I had to make like this conscious choice to be here on this physical plane and to operate within the dynamics of my family. So, to make a long story short, I kind of desensitized my connection to the spiritual realm and over time, and I’m talking about I had some spontaneous downloads when I was a teenager and some in my young adulthood, I was starting to connect with more information. But to make long story short, I intuitively knew that I was placed on this earth to have my hands…my hands on physical bodies. And so, I loved touching people. I love touching my parents, anybody that ever wanted a backrub got a backrub or foot massage, and I can remember somebody saying to my dad, she’s gonna grow up and be a masseuse. Now, this was, let’s say almost more than 50 years ago, and at that time, it took a negative connotation from my father, that he was like, No, she’s not . No, she’s not. So, but I never lost that love and that desire to have my hands on patients. So, I did mainstream school I went in got my undergraduate degree in chemistry and biology, naturally, I was just gravitated into becoming a chiropractor. So, I went into chiropractic school, and then all of a sudden, people were talking about innate intelligence, allowing the body to heal from above, down inside out, and being able to perceive and receive information from the hands. It became glorious for me for the first time, I felt like I was in my element, and I felt understood. And I got to have my hands on physical bodies. So, then what ended up happening is I graduated at a very young age, I was 25 years old. And then I went immediately into being self-employed. And if you know, I’m sure, going to naturopathic school it’s no different. You learn your trade, you learn the artistic element of what it is that you do, but not necessarily the business components on how to run a business. So through…Oh, yeah, it’s so through the school of hard knocks at the trial Finnair, I developed a pretty successful practice, one that I wanted to multiply and have a satellite and to grow and to build and to expand. And somewhere in that process, Dr. M, I started to lose my desire and my understanding of connecting with people. And I got stuck into a business model. But what was happening is that energetically, I went on autopilot. And I did not know what was happening at the time. But what I was doing was receiving Clairsentience information through my second chakra. And Clairsentience is essentially picking up emotional information or energetic information from an environment or a person. And then what would happen is that I could also through psychometry, which is essentially running information through my hand, I was also receiving information. So even though I was seeing a high volume of patients, I raised my frequency, and I didn’t realize what I was doing. But that frequency was what carried me from patient to patient. And then it became like, I would put my hands on people, and people would start saying, How did you know? And I don’t know how I know, I just know. And so that’s what gave me a blessing, if you will, that I kind of went unconscious in the work that I was doing. And then I kind of had to step aside and realize what was happening. Yeah, yeah. So then, Dr. M, I will be honest, I went through a traumatic burnout, where I had to attend to my own physical needs, I was giving and holding so much energy for other people that I forgot to take care of my own energy system. And I can share this hindsight is always 2020. But when I was in the middle of it, I could not see that. So I went through extreme exhaustion, adrenal exhaustion, I was literally flatlined for at least 18 months. So, what ended up happening is that, as you well know, if the physical body gets compromised, the emotional body is guaranteed to follow, and then also the energetic body. And so, my husband sat me down and he said, Listen, I have to share with you, I’m really concerned about your well-being, and our health, the integrity of our marriage. He’s like, so with all of that said, Are we both willing to compromise and to make some changes? And then he’s like, Oh, by the way, how would you consider leaving your practices and moving to Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. And so, he was hired by an international school company, and I was, you know, we decided jointly that it was time for me to leave the practices. So, we sold everything. We sold everything and then I ended up on the other side of the world and I went through a huge identity crisis. I had no idea who I was, what I stood for, what my purpose was, why was I even on this planet? Right. So, I did what any logical person who do I ran away from Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, and I went to Bali, Indonesia to finally get my YTT my Yoga Teachers Training. And I have been practicing yoga since I was maybe 20 years old. So, yoga was not new to me, but I finally had the time to dive into the science and the philosophy in the Athanas is in the Foniyama and, and so I did that and during that month, I started to come back to self and then I came back to Vietnam, and I got heavy into meditation. I had time. I had time for the first time in my life. I was like, What am I going to do with myself? I might as well sit and listen, right? So that’s what I did. And some really amazing things started to happen. Dr. M, I was like, wow, wow. Okay, so wait a minute, I finally woke up one morning, and I’m like, I know the human body incredibly well, from the neck on down. And then I’m like, something really interesting is happening in my brain while I am learning how to meditate. And so that’s what prompted me to go study positive psychology with Dr. Tal Ben Shahar. And because I knew I knew he was going to talk about the science and the neuroscience behind meditation. So, where it would appeal my analytical brain, right, which I still needed to feed that frontal lobe of my brain. And then I was able to fully surrender into my meditation and just allow the magic to happen. So then, yeah, yeah. So then, the journey was, and I will wrap up in just a moment. But the next part is kind of important in that my husband and I decided that we were going to incorporate some of the tools of the positive psychology and create an online learning platform for teachers. Right. So, my job was to educate defiance behind positive psychology, mindfulness, meditation, yoga, breathing, and so that these tools could be embodied by the teacher, then they could be role models for the students in the classroom. So, something really amazing happened, which I didn’t see coming, totally blindsided me. And that is as fast as I was making content it was being translated into Spanish. And so, it took off in Latin America or program did primarily in Lima, Peru, and Bogota, Colombia and, and a couple of other places. And so, to make a long story short, I’m like, This is phenomenal, right? But this is still not my calling, right, this is still not my purpose. A couple things happened. During that time span, my mother passed, and then my sister passed. And so, to make a long story short, I was compelled to bring it back to Okay, now I understand the human body, neck and down. Now I understand a little bit more of what’s happening between the ears. But now what’s really happening in the energetic sphere surrounding the physical body. And that’s what prompted me to go study in Fasalito, California at the Academy of Intuition Medicine with Dr. Francesca McCartney. And so, then Francesca blows my mind and says, Okay, intuition, let’s talk about intuition. It’s above and beyond the five typical senses that we operate from. And if we allow ourselves to expand and to receive information from the additional from the additional senses, then we’ll be able to better understand the subtleties of the energetic system in relation to cells and in relation to others.


Manon Bolliger  13:15

So, did you find that you had come at that point full circle, that what you knew, was now taught to you in terms that you understood it at another level, but it’s similar to what you had known all along? Is that kind of the experience or?


Dr. Mary Sanders  13:35

Absolutely, absolutely, I mean, Dr. M, like I said, at the beginning, I wish my journey was linear, but it was not, it was completely…I don’t know, my it’s easier to conceptualize as far as the analytical brain. But it really was holographic. It really was circular, multi-dimensional. And so that’s what allowed me to truly step into my gifts and allow the essence to come forth and to be of support for other people in their discovery of their own lifeforce energy and how they can heal themselves.  Right.


Dr. Mary Sanders  14:13

Because you and I are all about empowerment, how can we heal ourselves as opposed to the disempowerment of handing over that energy to somebody else’s responsibility? Right, so that’s my that’s my honor, as a medical intuitive, that’s what I got to do these days. I mean, I still have a small kind of boutique place where I get my hands on patient, half the time and then I hold space energetically the other half of the time.


Manon Bolliger  14:41

Oh, because I was gonna ask you, how do you work that like, are you still…is the way do you still do chiropractic at this point?


Dr. Mary Sanders  14:50

Yes. Yes.


Manon Bolliger  14:51

Okay, so is the way you do it. Different than how you learned it.


Dr. Mary Sanders  14:57

Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. For example, the first thing, when a patient lays down on my table, I use a Tibetan sound bowl, and I use that and I say, Okay, we’re just gonna get some low hanging fruit, you know, let’s just synchronize the energy field. And then I always, always gift back the energy to the patient that I’m working on, meaning it is my honor, to be of service. And the service to is to them and to their spirit to be at their highest good. So maybe just maybe that day, they need a skeletal alignment. Okay, great. I couldn’t do that. Maybe that day, they need some more emotional support. Great, I can do that. Maybe on some subconscious level, they need energetic support, I’m happy to be of service.


Manon Bolliger  15:49

Right, so it’s coming from the I am of service, I have the gifts in that sense to help at whatever level and then if they’re on your table, then you will be guided to go wherever it is that they need through everything. And do you find that patients know what they need or find ways of this is really the exploration of intuition, because it’s a subject I find, you know, fascinating. And also, of course, that I’m, you know, I call myself highly intuitive. And I feel I am, but I have not done any of the rationalizations of why the intuition is there. So, I don’t have the satisfaction in the brain yet. But I have the experience in my experience, you know, But my question is to you, do you find, you know, when you’re reading what people need, in that sense, are they…or do they know what they need?


Dr. Mary Sanders  17:06



Manon Bolliger  17:08



Dr. Mary Sanders  17:08

And so, I always ask, so you deal with people in pain, just like I deal with people in pain. And I always ask them intuitively, why is this happening?


Manon Bolliger  17:19

Right. Okay.


Dr. Mary Sanders  17:21

Then I sit back and I listen. Yeah, nine times out of 10. They have some understanding as to why they’re caring or choosing to have this pain pattern. And then the second thing I do is I say, Well, how do you like to be treated? And then some people are like, what, what do you mean? I don’t know. I’ve never been on your table. And I say that’s legitimate. But how do you like to be treated? I mean, you live in your body. I don’t. Do you like a strong touch? Do you like a light touch? Do you? You know, do you want to hear bones pop? Do you not want to hear bones pop? I mean, I give them you know, like these options of being able to identify just to empower them to be able to say, Okay, I’m here and I get to be a facilitator, right? I’m not healing, I’m facilitating. So, I get to hear and listen and intuit what they are saying as far as a what they want and be what they need, what they like.


Manon Bolliger  18:16

And then how do you tie in the chakras? Like, where does that come into this whole picture?


Dr. Mary Sanders  18:24

Yeah, Dr. M, I really appreciate you asking me this. So, I am going to answer, and I’ll do a little bit of chakra anatomy for you and the listeners so that you can get a better understanding. But so, my philosophy is that we are born into this world with a blueprint, a blueprint that is an expression of self as perfect as that is for our individual essence, right? So, we make this agreement to be on this physical plane. And so, we embody, we choose to come in and embody a physical body that happens to have all the bones muscles, nerves, ligaments, tendons, you know, all the brain, lungs, everything that comprises the physical body, as well as the energetic system that runs within the physical body, not only meridians, but also chakras as well. And then surrounding our physical body we have layers, multiple layers that represent or are in alignment with different themes that they correspond to the chakras, and they protect us like layers of an onion. But what ends up happening is that as we are…as we are engaging in our environment, if our energy system is not intact, if it’s not well delineated in contained, if we don’t demonstrate and come from a place of sacred space and boundaries, then energy come through can come through imperforate into the individual layers. And other times you may get holes, or you may get Ah, perforations or you may get tears within those energy layers surrounding the physical body. Over time, it can come into an individual energy center, a vortex of energy, which is responsible for receiving and assimilating information coming in through the environment. And that’s known as a chakra. And so, the chakra then gets intimately connected to an endocrine gland. There are nerve fibers that exit out or that travel away from the endocrine gland into the central nervous system, via the spine. And I traveled the information up into the brain, where then there are neuro peptides that are responsible and can be triggered, which give us an emotional response to the individual, the environment over long periods. But by the time it compromises our physical being our physical body, our body is the most dense energy system that we’re dealing with. So, it has taken time and repetition of that energy infiltrating into our bio field or field before it gets into the energy system. Okay, so with that understanding, with that understanding, I’ll talk about the seven lower chakras. Now, I realized that the majority of the listeners are just getting an auditory. You’re just listening to this podcast. So, I’ll do my best to explain the visual that I have available to us today. And I will, you know, I’ve got video, you know, that outlines all of this, and I can, you know, shed some light on this. So, we’re going to talk about the seven lower chakras and what I’m going to do for the audience with I’m going to hold up a common kitchen utensil. Okay, now I’d like to take credit for this for these props that I’m going to show you, but I can’t Dr. Francesca McCartney showed these visuals and for I’ve been taught chakras by so many instructors over the years that this was the first visual that made sense, and this is what I use to educate my patients as well. So, I’m opening I am looking at a funnel a kitchen funnel that you would use to take perhaps a liquid or spice with a wide mouth to it and a narrow funnel and a narrow aperture in which the liquid passes through. And so, there are seven major chakras one, the first one located deep within the pelvis, right above the pubic symphysis. And for those listeners the pubic symphysis are where the bottom two bones come together at the pelvic bowl. And if you’re a woman and you’ve ever given birth, that’s what engages and open and separate as you prepare to birth a baby through the vaginal canal. So that right above the pubic symphysis is the space in which the first chakra sits and reside. And now by the time that the chakra gets to be about an inch away from the physical body, it’s about three inches in diameter. Okay, so it is receiving the information coming through the environment penetrating through the biofield. And it gets caught in this funnel. And I like to think of the funnel kind of like a washing machine, because there’s a spin, okay, and each chakra has a various different has a various, the rate of the spin is different. So, the first chakra is the slowest and most intimate chakra that resonates closest to the frequency of the earth. So, this is where we gravitate for safety for security. This is where we get the nurturance that Mother Earth is really supporting us. And we know and you know that the energy of the earth is measurable. So, we know that that 7.8 hertz is what’s being circulated within the energy field of the first chakra. The second one is located just below the belly button, just below the umbilical cord. And again, that’s going to be a center in which its conception it’s for creation. It’s most intimately related to the ovaries in women and the testes in men. I should probably go back and say the first chakra is most intimately connected with the adrenal system. And in my own personal story, I’ll come back and relate how this all got messed up. So, first chakra around the pubic symphysis the adrenal system, the lumbo sacral nerve Plexus is what innervate and exit out of the central nervous system at that area.


Commercial Break  24:55

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Dr. Mary Sanders  26:04

So, when you um back to the first chakra so when you think about the first chakra you think about anything that controls the nerve intervention from the butt, thighs, knees, ankles and feet. So, if somebody comes to you with plantar fasciitis, if some which is just essentially pain and discomfort and the archer that the soles of the feet, if somebody comes to you with varicosities in the legs or knee pain or hip pain, or hemorrhoids, those are all physical symptoms that are most intimately connected to the first chakra. Okay, so you got a nerve Plexus, you get an endocrine gland, a central theme surrounding the individual chakra. And there’s emotional stuff that is all tied in there today. But for the sake of simplicity, I’ll just talk about those three things within the chakra anatomy. So, then we started talking about the second chakra located just below the belly button. And that is most intimately connected into the endocrine system of the ovaries and the women and testes within the man. So, you can think about the ovaries are used for creation for you know, releasing the egg and developing another human spirit. So, but within that there’s the element of creativity period. So, creativity as to how you get to choose to express your art that your essence authentically comes from that area. Okay, so the lumbar nerve plexus which exits out of the low back at the governing area. So, then you may see physical symptoms involving the lower intestines. So, the descending colon, the sigmoid colon, you may see appendix you may also see the bladder and the uterus. Those type of visser those kinds of physical symptoms are associated with the second chakra. I want to…go ahead ask.


Manon Bolliger  28:09

What about the kidney like, or the, you know, like the Chi as in the essence the Yin aspect of it is that is that second chakra because I was thinking more of the first ones like fight and flight adrenals but I’m just trying to compare to the Chinese system a little bit in the meridians, is there an association like that or not really in that same way.


Dr. Mary Sanders  28:36

I will say that not necessarily as far as you’re going to Ying and Yang like hollow versus solid or you know, an upward or downward energy. But what I will say specifically to the kidneys is that it shows up in two areas. And that being the third chakra, which I’ll talk about in a moment, and also the first because of again, the central nervous system.


Manon Bolliger  28:58

All right


Dr. Mary Sanders  28:58

But I want to I want to go back to a really really important thing because I know a lot of practitioners that are in the healing arts are listening to this podcast and that is the second chakra is most intimately connected to the Clairsentience to where you receive and hold information from other people. So, it’s not uncommon. It is not uncommon for healers when they have a certain frequency, and they are holding space for another person. It is not uncommon for those healers to hold that energy within their second chakra. Not uncommon so that’s an area to be aware of, I guess I should say. So, the third chakra is located just below the tip of the upper abdomen, below the tip of the diaphoid on the sternum and the soft part of the upper abdomen. And this is most intimately connected into the endocrine system of the pancreas. okay. And so, the enteric nervous system governs over this area. And a lot of times you will see that this area is of an expression of sovereignty or control or the essence of I am individuated so that comes from the solar plexus, the power center within the upper abdomen. Okay, so symptoms that you may see you talked about the kidney maybe the kidney shows up, maybe it’s related more to blood sugar imbalance in the pancreas so maybe there’s liver dysfunction gallbladder stuff, spleen splenic issue those show up within the third chakra. The fourth chakra, which are located in the center of the sternum, the breastbone is most intimately connected into the thymus. And so, within that space, you can see, the thymus is an underactive gland, as you know, is really responsible for immunity when kids are developing up to 18 and then kind of become not nonexistent or not even underdeveloped is there, but it’s intimately connected with the heart chakra, okay. I like the heart chakra for a couple of different reasons. The heart chakra has its own torque field, so has a lot of energy and expansion front and back. So, some of the issues that you may see when he started to uncover issues within that energy center has to do with soft love, and forgiveness, and compassion for self and for and for others. And now I’m just going to make a comparison that if somebody’s primarily coming from the space that their second chakra, again, a lesson for those practitioners listening, they have a tendency of being too blown open and too empathetic that they are willing to take other people’s energies on. But really, when we come from a heart space, and we’re holding space, for those that may be in transition or pain, we can hold compassion for them, but we don’t take it on energetically. Okay, so there’s a difference between being compassionate and being empathetic. So, you can start going into the area of the neck, and right about the fifth cervical vertebra, right around the area of the thyroid is where the fifth chakra is. Now, the fifth chakra is so fascinating to me, because it’s a small surface area. If you really think about the circumference of your neck in relation to your belly or your waist, there’s a lot of energy that gets compressed within that throat. And as you well know, you know, there’s so many imbalances from the endocrine perspective of the thyroid, whether people are underactive, you know, hypothyroidism, or if they have Hashimoto’s, or hyperthyroidism, that shows up with an under or an over expression, or the ability to authentically express their creativity, their voice, how they show up in this world, the words that they choose, and expression, as you well know, can come out in the form of dance in the form of movement in the form of writing in the form of art and expression. It takes on so many different connotations, but it really does stem from the ability to be able to open that fifth chakra. And that comes from the cervical nerve Plexus, the nerves that exit out of the neck, so that control the shoulders, elbows, arms, wrist and hand. Okay? 


Dr. Mary Sanders  33:47

So, clinicians, if you’re listening to me, and you’re like, Oh, well, you mean that that patient that I’m treating for elbow pain, might be having issues with their neck in relation to their expression. That’s exactly what I’m saying. That people with carpal tunnel issues, shoulder issues, possibly maybe even breast cancer. So, we get to look at the energy systems integratively. So, we know that there is a physical, emotional and energetic or spiritual component. I think the next one, Dr. M, you’re gonna resonate with and that is the sixth chakra, and that’s located just above the eyebrows in the center of the forehead. And this energy center is most intimately connected with you will think about the pituitary, excuse me, the pineal gland is the endocrine gland that’s most intimately responsible, because this is all about clear vision. How we can see the truth how we can see energy how we can see illness within another person. We don’t know how we see it, we just see it. And for the reason that the pineal and I love, I love the pituitary, I keep saying pineal, that’s the next one, the put the, excuse me, the pituitary is the next one, the pineal is number six, the pineal gland is literally about the size of your pinkie, right your pinkie nail, and it looks like little pinecone. So, you think about the pine cone. And you think about how much surface area is in this tiny little endocrine gland. And this endocrine gland is responsible for producing the vibe and the cone that we still have within our physical eyeballs. And it’s responsible for melatonin and a branch of the tryptophan family. So, when we are looking at opening and receiving information from an intuitive sense, as far as clairvoyance within the sixth chakra, that is intimately connected with a higher level of consciousness as it relates to the pineal gland. Love this one, then you get to tap up into this space of the seventh. And that, again, is your pituitary, and as you know, that governs over all of your other endocrine systems, right? And so, you get the central nervous system carrying that information or the meridian system carrying that information from the production of the cerebral spinal fluid through the ventricles of the brain, and then down to the central nervous system out to all the other endocrine systems. It’s such a beautiful system.


Manon Bolliger  36:37

Yeah. But I like how you you’ve related and I’m wondering too, in your, in your practice experience when I practice because I’m no longer a practicing naturopath. So, I have to say I’m officially deregistered. Because you said doctor, so I have to clarify that. But what I was gonna say a lot of the thyroid problems are masked adrenal problems, in other words, missed adrenal problems, right? And then, you know, some of the work that I do I rebalance in the body, the trauma often lived by the adrenal glands. And, then the voice and then the whole, the idea of the thyroid comes back, you know, emotionally and physically. Right. Have you noticed that in that correlation?


Dr. Mary Sanders  37:35

Yeah, I have. Because I, you, you are coupling various different endocrine systems. It’s not unlike looking at the HPA access, you know. So, you’re coupling them together, and I see the same thing. So those that are kind of lifting or maybe thinking about the interrelationship between the second chakra and the fifth chakra. Or maybe the relationship between the first and the fifth, or the first and the third they are there are themes. And I guess what I want to present the idea to the listeners is that the energy system always follows our thoughts and our intentions. And so, if we can envision, I’m gonna use another visual for those that are listening, and that is a traditional vegetable steamer that you might find in your kitchen. And the vegetable steamer has the ability, you know how to metal, and you put it down into your basket, and then you open it up, and then you put all of your vegetables in there, and then you allow the vegetables to steam. So, I like to refer to the Chakra as the fun of the chakra on top of the funnel, as having an aperture. So, you know you’ve got a spin, right? And then you as an individual as spirit inhabiting your human home can set the intention, depending upon your environment to open an aperture or to close down an aperture. And many of the dysregulation that you’re talking about Dr. M when you talk about the thyroid and the adrenal means that perhaps maybe one has been overextended and stuck too far open consequently, and it’s operating a double overtime, and then the other one is a little bit more shut down. So, we talk about healthy apertures in various different environments. If you’re a treating practitioner, what does it look like sitting knee to knee in a consultation? What you know what should be open what should be closed when you are fitting a family dynamic and I’m just only because at the end of October when we’re recording this, maybe it’s Thanksgiving dinner and you have some really dysfunctional family dynamics happening around the table and you can monitor your energy system so that you don’t take this on. So that’s hard given right? You know, if we intellectually know this, then we can run our system depending upon where and what, you know what kind of an environment we’re in.


Manon Bolliger  40:12

We’re actually running out of time. So, I don’t want to take too many more questions. But I wanted you to…do you actually teach this now? Like, can people practitioners join a training or something that you offer at this point?


Dr. Mary Sanders  40:27

Yes, yes. And I’m thankful that you have asked for it, but I’m going to be full. When full transparency, I am taking my current training, which is five months long, and I’m breaking it down into smaller modules, that is more easily digestible. So, on my website, which is www.drmarysanders.com, you will find the various different offerings that I have and the services that are available.


Manon Bolliger  41:00

Great, great. And, and last question for you. This is for all questions, though. You know, we talked about the Great Awakening, I’m sure you’ve heard the term around these days, do you feel that energetically, whether it’s, you know, because we’re going into the season of Aquarius? Or there’s many, you know, theories of why that is? But do you feel that more and more people are honing into their intuition and coming back or coming back into this this state of I would say it’s like a sovereign trust of self of the innate healing of what is actually possible without, you know, pharmaceuticals and all the rest? Do you feel?


Dr. Mary Sanders  41:54

Yes, I do. I definitely feel that shift Dr. M. I’m in complete in a complete state of awe as to the current environment of today’s geopolitical issues involving religion. And it is I’m in awe. And at some cellular level, I’m incredibly saddened by the violence that is happening. 


Dr. Mary Sanders  42:17

And I feel somewhat I want to…I know I have to create the environment for individuals to come back into self and again, through their self-do the regulation to increase their levels of consciousness, in order to hold space for all that is happening within this world. And really, that’s the most important thing that we can do is to come back to yourself, and to trust yourself, and listen to the information that you are receiving. Because I believe that everyone that is listening, is primed, is ready, is willing to receive information, if they just choose to expand their consciousness and go open to the information. It’s available to everyone. It’s accessible to everyone.


Manon Bolliger  43:08

Okay, and very last question, which probably won’t make it to YouTube, but I have Rumble as well. So, do you feel that now that there’s a lot of more information seeping out, there’s just no way of stopping it about the last three years that people have experienced? And the so-called choices? You know, with a high level of propaganda. The word choice is a tricky one to use, though, ultimately, it’s a choice, as in it’s part of your life path. But do you feel that even if, you know, medical people can’t explain or can’t find the natural or unnatural drug to take to stop some of the impact of the bioweapon that we have been subjected to? Do you feel that the body the person, the larger aspect of us is capable of overcoming this?


Dr. Mary Sanders  44:23

Yes, I do.


Manon Bolliger  44:24

Okay, yeah, me too. Just was curry. Yeah.


Dr. Mary Sanders  44:27

Yes, I do. And I and Dr. M, you were so eloquent and how you ask the question, I thought it was beautifully stated. But the one thing that I will say with 100% certainty is that the human body…A, the human body never ever ceases to amaze me. How we were so beautifully engineered is beyond my comprehension. Beyond my comprehension. And then when I tap into the energetic system, and I’m talking about stuff that has yet to be proven, okay, now this is whereas practitioners we make and bridge that gap where you can sit there and say experientially, I know this to be true. I know the human body have this capacity, because you’ve seen it happen within your practice as I have as well. And so, but yet science may be just lagging a little bit and being able to prove it.


Manon Bolliger  45:21

Yeah. Yeah, no. And I think, you know, we’ve lived that with things that, you know, that, like that nerve regeneration, which was a no, no, no, the body can’t do that. And then oh, yes, it can’t. And then the many things that are named something derogatory, like junk DNA, just because no one understands what the other parts do. So, I very much believe that the body if you see it, and you know, we call this hearsay, if it had to go to two courts, it’s hearsay, because it’s not a so-called research. But, you know, I think that two has to change is that if you have a practitioner who sees over and over something, you know, from the perspective of a patient, they don’t need to go to court, they just need to get better. And let it be figured out later how it happened. Like, in other words, there’s so much we don’t know. And to relax into that. And just be in aw like you are, you know, I love the way you say that. It’s like, the body never stops to amaze you. And same with me. I mean, yeah.


Dr. Mary Sanders  46:40

You know, Dr. M, I’m going to put a multifaceted spin on this conversation in that as practitioners’ chances are, this is not our first experience holding space for healing and transformation. So, we may be carrying information stored within our DNA or within ourselves, that we know certain things, right? Because we’ve had generations or lifetimes in which we’ve been in this in this kind of capacity of knowing how the body is going to respond and how the energetic system will perceive the information. So, it’s not new to us. It’s not new to us. But we live in a you know, let’s have a hardcore science proven type society. So, I can be in that state of unknown comfortably because I’ve been doing this now for almost 30 years and next August will be 30 years for me, as you have 30 plus years underneath your belt. I’m okay, going toe to toe with somebody you know, that may have that hardcore science and being able to say, Well, my experience said that.


Manon Bolliger  47:44

Okay, well, let’s leave with those beautiful words. And thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation.


Dr. Mary Sanders  47:52

Truthfully and sincerely, the honor has been mine. Thank you so much, listeners.


Manon Bolliger  47:57

Thank you.

ENDING: 41:33

Thank you for joining us at the Healers Café with Manon Bolliger. Continue your healing journey by visiting TheHealersCafe.com and her website and discover how to listen to your body and reboot optimal health or DrManonBolliger.com/tips.

  * De-Registered, revoked & retired naturopathic physician, after 30 years of practice in healthcare. Now resourceful & resolved to share with you all the tools to take care of your health & vitality!