How Fear Impacts us with Dr Matt Lyon on The Healers Café with Dr. Manon Bolliger, ND
In this episode of The Healers Café, Dr. Manon Bolliger, ND, chats with Dr Matt Lyon, Chiropractor, acupuncture practitioner and a teacher of meditation
Highlights from today’s episode include:
Dr Matt (05:33):
I’ve Noticed a qualitative shift. I’m so curious what you think, how you feel…. I’ve noticed a qualitative shift in people’s nervous systems, We’re more on alert, more on guard, more, in that flexor reflex, afferent fight or flight sympathetic overdrive, you know, nor epinephrin fuelled fear state, we are just kind of….. In this, this ocean of fear and that’s changed, you know, that’s been an issue
Dr Matt (08:18):
i feel one of the big issues in our society is that people are sort of cutting down from here, like talking heads already disembodied……being disembodied and then asking people to wear masks and then believing or expecting that we’re going to become more. Heart-Centered. I mean, that’s a big leap.
Dr Matt (11:39):
I mean, no disrespect to any chiropractors who are watching this, but chiropractors who solely focused on pain or, Hey, nice to see, mrs. Jones, crack, crack, crack, pop, pop, pop, see you later. Those are the guys that are really struggling and they’re struggling for a few reasons.
Dr Matt (14:54):
I’ve seen the situations where people are just really struggling. And then I’ve seen this situation where people are really thriving and the more holistic and the more emotionally attuned people are and the better communicators there are. And they have effective systems that actually work with the whole person they’re doing really well.
Dr Manon (17:10):
The board standing up for for chiropractors saying, this is essential. We were as naturopathic doctors, also considered essential, but here’s the kicker. We were not allowed to talk about the immune system. We were not allowed to say our truth.
Dr Matt (28:25):
The vast majority of people in the United States either don’t have access to that, or don’t have economic access to that. And so we look at communities that are disproportionately affected, whereas a major conversation about how many dollars you have to buy foods that are healthy. And when it’s Kraft macaroni and cheese and processed grains and processed meats and Sugar Sugar Sugar huge amounts of obesity, hypertension, high blood pressure, diabetes prediabetes, all of these predisposing conditions where you’ve got loads of cytokines, loads of inflammation, loads of emotional stress in the community because people in survival and all of a sudden now damn, and that’s to say that wealthy people aren’t affected, but it’s, it’s different. It’s very different.
About Dr Matt Lyon:
Dr. Matt is a chiropractor and acupuncture practitioner who owned and operated one of the largest chiropractic clinics of its kind in the world. His clinic had a 6-9 month waiting list where clients flew from around the world to participate in a wholly unique MindBody paradigm and practice of healing and wellness. He specialized in deeply energetic approach to alignment and balance called Network Spinal Analysis (as featured on the GoopLab special, episode 5 found on Netflix). He was also a master practitioner and facilitator of SomatoRespiratory Integration – a somatic breath and energy practice to up level the human nervous and energy system.
Dr. Matt Lyon has been teaching meditation to groups for 27 years. Dr. Matt began his deep study of meditation in 1992 with an initiation in traditional Japanese Zen meditation with a renowned Zen Master. After that, he studied with a monk and Christian meditation master in the tradition of Centering prayer. He has also been formally initiated and trained in Tibetan Buddhism, Mindfulness meditation, Transcendental Meditation, and Loving-Kindness meditation.
Dr. Matt also lived and trained at the US Olympic Training center as an athlete where he was trained in leading edge biofeedback, meditation, and visualization.
Dr. Matt has worked with and taught in over 20 corporations as a wellness and mindfulness consultant. At Duke Energy, the largest power utility in the United States, he rolled out a watershed 6 month meditation program for employees.
Dr. Matt also leads his own private retreats for small groups in the USA, Latin America, and the Caribbean.
He and his wife sold their clinic and relocated to Longmont, CO as they begin their next service adventure to the Colorado community. They are currently opening a healing center here in Longmont, CO.
Dr. Matt is an intuitive Energy strategist to some of the most influential thought leaders of our time and has worked directly with a number of prominent politicians, authors, influencers and Hollywood actors.
About Dr. Manon Bolliger, ND:
Dr. Manon is a Naturopathic Doctor, the Founder of Bowen College, an International Speaker with an upcoming TEDx talk in Jan 2021, and the author of the Amazon best-selling books “What Patient’s Don’t Say if Doctors Don’t Ask” and “A Healer in Every Household”.
Dr. Manon, ND – Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | YouTube | Twitter
About The Healers Café:
Dr. Manon’s show is the #1 show for medical practitioners and holistic healers to have heart to heart conversations about their day to day lives.
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Dr Manon (00:01):
So welcome to the healers cafe. And today I have back with me, Dr. Matt Lion, he’s a chiropractor and acupuncture practitioner who owned and operated one of the largest chiropractic clinics of its kind in the world. And his clinic has a six to nine months waiting list, Clients fly from around the world to participate in a wholly unique mind, body paradigm, and practice of healing and wellness. I’m going to leave it at that right now, but I am really thrilled to talk to you about so many subjects, including going back to work in these times. So maybe let’s start with that and then I will explore the issues that are coming up.
Dr Matt (00:52):
Its good to be with you, first of all. And it’s great to be with your students and all the other great souls who will hear this talk. Tell me more what you’d like to talk about.
Dr Manon (01:06):
Well, I was thinking first of all, where do you live and how has going back to work impacted at your patients and all that? Because I know that looking at the best that I can from what’s happening in, even in Canada, in different places, we have different rules and different obligations to do different things. So I’m just curious, where, what is it like for you? What happens and how are people feeling about what’s going on?
Dr Matt (01:45):
Sure. So I live in a smaller ranching town North of Boulder, Colorado. So I’m about 30 minutes North of Boulder, Colorado going back, you know………., I was really blessed. I took 18 months off. I mean, normally I don’t, I’m not going to take time off. I love this work so much. I love this medicine so much. I’m always involved in learning and growing. I was excited to shift roles though, and, and move out of really busy practice, which included a lot of patients and a lot of management, and recreate myself, I love the term fascial restructuring or fascial reorganization. So I kind of went through that myself and March my wife, who’s a psychologist, a psychotherapist who does a lot of somatic based psychotherapy. So we worked together. We had a whole centre like we were about to sign the papers on a really beautiful place.
Dr Matt (02:54):
and then this, this bizarre experience of COVID-19 descended upon all, this whole world. And so we decided to be like, Whoa, let’s take a step back. So we actually, lived on a big ranch in New Mexico. So in the Southwest of the United States, beautiful ranch Mike, my daughter’s a great horse rider. And so we just sort of lived the ranch life for awhile. And we were like, let’s just, let’s get away from society for a little bit, but, you know I feel it’s so important to be in practice as an Emissary of healing, of hope, of kindness, of compassion and health. You know, we have a lot of conversation these days about sickness and COVID and death rates and mortality rates and contagion rates and where that’s, an important conversation. There’s another conversation that is sorely lacking, which is health, which is the internal state of health and the cultivation of health and the cultivation of wellness and the cultivation of resourcefulness and resilience and ease, and really what drives health when, what is the immune system and how does that relate to the musculoskeletal fascial system?
Dr Matt (04:20):
How does that relate to the energetic system, the biochemical systems? So all of that. So to answer your question a little bit more directly, I used to have a really busy practice where it was an interesting concept. I had a big open space, so everyone was treated and worked on in this open space. And I had six tables in a large waiting room and there was kind of this community. So I knew I didn’t want to go back to that. I think that’s a lovely practice model, but I wanted to spend, you know, 60, 30 to 90 minutes with clients. and the sort of the in depth nature of the work I do, where I integrate myofascial acupuncture, energy and functional medicine sort of is the approach I take right now. And and then I guess we could call somatic psychology. So I already had, in my mind, I wanted to change it up. So at least in the state of Colorado, because I see about one person per hour and I have a really cool old office with these giant windows, I just cracked the windows open and people that were able to just work that. So I see about one person every hour and new patients I spend about 90 minutes, two hours with, so it’s going OK.
Dr Matt (05:33):
I’ve Noticed a qualitative shift. I’m so curious what you think, how you feel…. I’ve noticed a qualitative shift in people’s nervous systems, We’re more on alert, more on guard, more, in that flexor reflex, afferent fight or flight sympathetic overdrive, you know, nor epinephrin fuelled fear state, we are just kind of….. In this, this ocean of fear and that’s changed, you know, that’s been an issue
Dr Manon (06:06):
I so agree. And if you look at it between, and we can talk about masks, you know, their validity or not, but that apart. Let’s just say that they are absolutely good if we’re covering ourselves this way, when we’re looking at each other, we can’t see each other smile. We don’t really, we’re not used to not reading another person. And when we’re walking down the street and I know because my my mother doesn’t wear one because she doesn’t, she’s elderly and she doesn’t want, she wants to get oxygen when she’s outside. Right. And so she’s saying, well, you know, if it’s my choice, because I have the right to live or die, I’m not sick. And I want to go outside this way and I wanna get my vitamin D and I want to get my oxygen. And people are like, shunning her, like this going around her. There’s so much reflex reaction. Like people move out of the way, mask or no mask it’s unbelievable. And the level of tension in people’s bodies is, palpable. Like you can actually feel it palpable.
Dr Matt (07:30):
I love what you say about the faces,I read so much from facial expression, both in terms of emotional affect, but jaw function, you know, cranial nerve function head position you know, I position it so critical for me. And that’s one of the first things I pick up on. So you’re right. I have to, I have to go into such a heart centered place and to really use that sixth sense of, of feeling and sensing beyond the five senses and really tuning in to where a person’s at, but hang, it’s hard with the masks Sometimes.
Dr Matt (08:18):
i feel one of the big issues in our society is that people are sort of cutting down from here, like talking heads already disembodied……being disembodied and then asking people to wear masks and then believing or expecting that we’re going to become more. Heart-Centered. I mean, that’s a big leap. I mean, it’s amazing as a health practitioner, I think that is the only choice we have. But as a society, I find that very difficult, but everything happens and there’s good to be seen and good to be drawn out of it. We’re asking of ourselves or of people to trust deeply and look at the eyes and really connect because people aren’t looking at each other anymore. It’s not just, it’s like by removing the face, it’s almost like people are not looking in the eyes either. So it’s really it’s quite a leap to talk about heart centred in this circumstance.
Dr Matt (09:38):
Yeah. That’s so true. I agree. I’ve noticed that a lot, the redirection of eye contact, we know the research, well, the research there, there is interesting studies looking at the effect of zoom on people’s mood, attention, and brain function. And so we live in these spaces. I know talking with you is so easy because I feel like I can connect to your heart. And I have such a context of relationship with you in person.
Dr Manon (10:14):
I think being on zoom, I have seen some meetings that I have on zoom. In some ways you can see people and feel closer, but if you don’t have a context, what, if it’s, it’s harder in some ways than in person where you’re used to judging all of the body language, because you’re only seeing a very small part, you know, on zoom, but given the body language that is outdoors and this hiding and shunning, naming and shaming and all of this really intense fear and anger kind of energy zoom feels like a haven. Like it’s the safe place, you know, it’s so funny kind of turnaround in our society. So like your colleagues that are possibly working as chiropractors and chiropractors, typically we’ll see more than one person in an hour and have different rooms and are set up this way. Can you speak to the impact that might have on them or what you’ve heard.
Dr Matt (11:39):
Sure, I’ve had a lot of exposure to that, I wanna pre-frame this, as I want this to be a really empowering message because I’ve seen a few scenarios play out, fascinatingly, my friends who work like I do. So really having maybe an integrative model and, I mean, no disrespect to any chiropractors who are watching this, but chiropractors who solely focused on pain or, Hey, nice to see, mrs. Jones, crack, crack, crack, pop, pop, pop, see you later. Those are the guys that are really struggling and they’re struggling for a few reasons. One people don’t want to go in, they don’t want to be exposed because in their mind I can live with my back pain or my shoulder pain, because they haven’t been properly educated. That pain is simply a message from your body that relates to your health, right?
Dr Matt (12:35):
So those guys are struggling and the people who were in high volume models that required a high degree of administration with multiple staff and a concurrent complexity of systems to support that. A lot of those guys are struggling because in Colorado is one of them in some States, there’s just a clamp down on what you can do. There’s just a clamp down on what you can do. Now, having said that I have noticed there’s a cadre of practitioners that I’m connected with that are wait-listed and busy because their emphasis is on health. It’s really unwellness. And so people get, Oh my gosh, the health of my fascia, the health of my fascia, as it relates to spinal cord pathways, which help brain balance and effect lymphatic flow and activate a number of different neural pathways and non neural information pathways, all of which are immune signalers, Whoa, I really need this, that, that I can actually get healthier and better now, so that I can co-evolve with this virus as best as I can, which is not to say that COVID-19 as a virus with sensitive people, it is, it can effect huge changes in multiple organ systems that as we know, can be very deadly
Dr Matt (14:05):
And we can’t leave health from that discussion. So the people in my profession, and I’ve noticed this with acupuncture is the people that are really helpful and understanding, and provoking and evoking a discussion around health, giving people really powerful treatments and tools so that they feel really empowered about their health. They’re like, Oh my God, you got to go see Dr. Jim, or you got to go see acupuncture or Susan, or you got to go see this lady. She, this Bowen therapy. I’m like, God, it’s so good. It’s like the best thing for me right now. I’ve also seen it. So these guys are very, very full and have even then translated being able to do zoom stuff. I personally don’t love doing consult via zoom. I do functional medicine consults via zoom. because I can look at lab work and I have some friends do that.
Dr Matt (14:54):
It’s not my favourite thing because I don’t like lab work separate from a person’s body and their body language. And then the emotional connection. There, I mentioned that there were three situations. I’ve seen the situations where people are just really struggling. And then I’ve seen this situation where people are really thriving and the more holistic and the more emotionally attuned people are and the better communicators there are. And they have effective systems that actually work with the whole person they’re doing really well. And then I’ve seen a bunch of other people you know, I’ll be direct here. I’ve seen some other folks that do some things that I don’t totally agree with and, you know, gosh, how do I, well, I think I’ve already, we’re on, we’re live recording. So I have to say, well that are very afraid of losing patients and they’re over marketing the value of their systems, which I don’t agree with.
Dr Matt (15:52):
And I don’t agree with that at all. And I don’t agree with people that are sort of, it’s not that I don’t think it’s important to have discussions with regulatory agencies. If I don’t agree with what they’re saying, you know, for a while in Colorado, we weren’t chiropractors, weren’t essential. Right? I’m so grateful that our association was like, Whoa, wait, hold up. We’re totally essential. You have hospitals that are shut down. You have people that can’t even get care. Like we help. We are a massive line of defense for you guys. Having said that I did, I didn’t like that. Some people are like beating the drum for their seminars and promoting live seminars with hundreds of people. And just trying to keep people from, you know, bailing out of their practices where people have pre committed to a year of care and paid five, $6,000 upfront. And I don’t like when doctors of any variety are fear based and sort of spinning a story about what they do that isn’t in fact validated by the evidence. That’s where I have a little bit of a rub with some of the higher volume chiropractic practices, doing some stuff that I just don’t think is super cool. But I think that the people who are really have a great message and really have a very true holistic, reliable evidence-based way to work with people they’re doing very, very well.
Dr Manon (17:10):
In Canada, I guess we don’t see that middle group that you’re talking about. I haven’t really seen that happen here. So which is it’s interesting that, and I was going to say for the holistic practitioners, it’s been very interesting. because when you mentioned, the board standing up for for chiropractors saying, this is essential. We were as naturopathic doctors, also considered essential, but here’s the kicker. We were not allowed to talk about the immune system. We were not allowed to say our truth.
Dr Matt (17:51):
The same thing in the States.
Dr Manon (17:54):
Oh my goodness. You know, here we have, society that is in fear and we know the physiological implications of fear on the immune system. We, know that it disregulates, we know what being in chronic stress mode does.it affects your sleep, And I think everyone listening probably does too, but it’s hugely impactful. And yet I remember putting out a, I guess it’s an add, but it’s like come to my webinar. i was doing a webinar for the public on boosting your immune system………..
Dr Matt (19:43):
You step out of that, it’s labeled as misinformation, That’s at least in the States it’s misinformation. So to talk about immune function, which is part and parcel of our work, whether you’re doing Bowen therapy or a seminar or event and or some chiropractic intervention, there are a number of studies just with chiropractic alone that talk about
that talk about T-cell, up-regulation various components of immune function that are benefited from their loads and loads and loads of studies on movement and immune function, nutrition and immune function. I mean, it’s all out there. So when it becomes” sh that’s misinformation”, I have a real problem with that.I also have a deep respect for the epidemiological community and the various allopathic medical communities that are really doing their best on the front lines, as it were to mitigate death, insensitive, populate, sensitive people.
Dr Manon (20:48):
Well, and it’s not like it’s us and them because many of them are also having issues now there’s I heard that in the States too, there’s I think it was three hospitals that actually did studies on the impact of vitamin C and and one drug. I’m not going to mention it because it’s so to tabooed every time it appears on the media it disappears. And I think that’s a political thing, but those studies that are there available you, but you have to search them. They’re never discussed by the media other than politically.
Dr Matt (21:32):
. The vitamin C stuff you’re referencing was really defiled by the media as, you know, bunk science, not real, not through. And one of my colleagues a medical doctor here in the States was doing high dose vitamin a vitamin D vitamin C there’s one other thing that was in that little cocktail and had all the research to support it. And the American medical association in his local medical board, really shut it down. He had one of the, I think one of the largest holistic medical clinics in United States. So it’s really deeply troubling that somewhere in the psyche, the collective psyche, well, it’s not really that big of a surprise. You know, people are really fearful. They’re really scared. And there is this belief that There is a virus and it is structured like COVID-19 COVID-19 means that it started in 19 Corona virus disease, 19 that’s would COVID stands for .
Dr Matt (22:48):
We all know there will be a COVID 20, there will be a Covid 21. There will be a COVID 22, right. COVID has been around just different forms. And we, as human beings have been co-evolving with viruses back, there was a great much of our immune system, much of our immune system comes from our relationships to virus and bacteria. In fact, a portion of our DNA is in fact viruses. So this idea that we’re sort of the separate entities and those viruses are out there. I mean, we are living and breathing and coexisting in a whole macro and micro biome, where in the evolutionary potential of the human is actually turned on by these challenges that come in. No, look, I get it. You know, like we have known that public health procedures mitigate death and pandemics, like we know this for sure. Get it. And a healthier society can be much more resilient with said viruses. Here’s an interesting statistic. At least this was a couple of weeks ago. States has a fairly small percent of the world’s population. And yet statistically, we had higher cases and higher deaths than anywhere else in the world.
Dr Matt (24:28):
So that’s there’s fact, let me share an opinion. We we also, in this particular country spend more than any other country in the world on health intervention. And yet we have some of the worst public health outcomes with some of the worst health. We spend more, but we have like the worst health of industrialized countries to be fair. We have a country where 50 to 60, 50, 50% of people are obese 60%. You know, what is it that 65% of people are overweight. We have about 40 to 50% of people who are obese. We have a diabetes type, two diabetes epidemic in our children.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
and so when it’s, when you See the fact that we are super, super, super, super impacted by this disease, more than anybody else, I think we also have to look at other health trends and have a conversation about immune function and diet and sunlight and oxygen. Hello, breathing into a mask and research violating carbon dioxide has been shown to make people tired. It’s been shown to show down function. You’re, you’re totally disregulating the whole Kreb cycle and how we produce ATP. So I’ll stop there. But yeah, I’m very passionate about it because it has to be a wider conversation ‘” misinformation, stop talking misinformation.’ That’s not cool. And when it comes from technocrats, I E the major financial drivers of the technological world, Google, Facebook, YouTube having absolute shut down now. Sure. There’s crazy people out there saying crazy things. Absolutely crazy, but there are smart, intelligent science driven, compassionate people with good data and good information to empower people about their health. Lock people in their houses and then scare the bejesus out of them to do anything when people don’t move their immune system drops.
Dr Manon (26:26):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you’ve raised so many points. I’m trying to keep up with all the pieces, but to the one point about our evolving biology, the environment, I mean, Zach Bush, I don’t know if you’ve heard about his work, but it’s so far. I don’t think all of it is censored yet.
Dr Matt (26:50):
Really, he was a physician, right?
Dr Manon (26:52):
Yeah. He’s a physician and environmentalist and he also talks about permaculture. Exactly. And it’s the same idea of the environment in our gut, you know, as the environment in our ecology. So really stretching our way of looking at our relationship to nature rather than just thinking, Oh, we’re gonna, we’re gonna have to fight nature. We’re gonna beat nature. We’re going to bring it down. It’s more that we’re actually evolving through it. And, that’s where, when you mentioned the resilience and looking at what are we putting in our bodies, how are we treating our emotions and our minds? And, then looking at the economic infrastructures, like if there’s, I had an interview on Tuesday with a fellow and he was using the term food deserts, which is really a phenomena that is quite prevalent. It would appear in in the States where people don’t have certain communities. And he was talking specifically about, about the black community, but also Latin America and the community where they don’t necessarily have vegetables or foods that they have access to. They have access only to these fast food outlets and the, I forgot what he’s called them like their stores, where you can buy, but it’s mostly just, processed food.
Dr Matt (28:25):
When we lived in rural New Mexico we were on a gorgeous ranch. Most of the surrounding community lives in deep poverty, and there’s a mix of Latino and Hispanic in Mexico. I was told that they prefer the term Hispanic because deep Spanish ancestry. And these are generally poor communities. They are disproportionately affected. And every time we would go to the grocery store, I was like, Holy smokes. It was like a big light bulb for me because I’ve, you know, I lived in a affluent city, Charlotte, North Carolina, and I live in Boulder, Colorado, you know, organic farm to table food is super close. The vast majority of people in the United States either don’t have access to that, or don’t have economic access to that. And so we look at communities that are disproportionately affected, whereas a major conversation about how many dollars you have to buy foods that are healthy. And when it’s Kraft macaroni and cheese and processed grains and processed meats and Sugar Sugar Sugar huge amounts of obesity, hypertension, high blood pressure, diabetes prediabetes, all of these predisposing conditions where you’ve got loads of cytokines, loads of inflammation, loads of emotional stress in the community because people in survival and all of a sudden now damn, and that’s to say that wealthy people aren’t affected, but it’s, it’s different. It’s very different.
Dr Manon (30:05):
Definitely. And I was gonna say, yeah, another thing too, which is if we put this whole virus in relationship to not just the comorbidities of the people most impacted, okay. But if we put it in, in relationship to other viruses now, apparently last year was lighter, but two years ago, we’re about at the same numbers. We’re not at crazy high numbers at, and yet I there’s, I don’t watch television. I don’t actually have a television, but I do occasionally look at the news. And I remember Fauci was making a comment that that he looks at health and not the impact that it has on other aspects of people’s lives, which means if, people no longer have jobs, if they can’t pay their rent, if they’re losing their homes, you know, the level of depression, the anxiety, the suicide, is sky rocketing
Dr Manon (31:28):
So for one virus that turns out to be pretty well, no worse than two years ago. And I mean, they’re calling cases now because people are thinking cases means death cases are not deaths, right? Cases is more people being tested. And when you look at the research, because everything is all research science-based, and you’re only.allowed to listen to certain people, which to me is, is a kind of a crazy thing because part of science to me is the discussions to see whether the premise is good, whether it’s a much bigger context, but the context and the discussions are being removed entirely and yet in plain sight, the way I’m looking at this and, you know, let me know your thoughts on this, but I’m looking at this hugely exaggerated curve.
Dr Matt (32:36):
the research study that really was 94% bigger numbers than actually was the case. Right. And I forgotten the name of the fellow or the school that did that. Sorry, I’m having a brain fart on this one, but you know, the numbers are nothing like that. Nothing at all like that. But the strategies implemented are as if nothing has changed. And that’s what I find really troubling is that even, even the premise of the need for a vaccine, for example, which I mean, there are, there are vaccines around that are well tested that I’ve taken a long time and still can cause damage. Of course. But in this case, if there were, we’re speeding this up tremendously to save people with a virus that is changing. because we already know that it’s it’s changing. because that’s what viruses do. Look at the flu and the flu vaccine, you know, there’s 50% efficacy apparently and also plenty of science.
Dr Manon (33:49):
we’re going to be spending all or the focused energy and money on saving through a vaccine, which is again, fighting against our own relationship with the environment from an outside hero. That is not yet proven because they’ve actually removed the animal studies maybe because there were so many deaths in the past when they’ve been working on this virus for like 30 years, right. The Corona has been around since forever and all these ferrets have died. Right. I don’t know if you know about this, but I was shocked to find out that these, these these ferrets had had a beautiful antibody reaction, which is what you want. And at that point, a vaccine is normally approved at that level. Right. What happened is when they actually got the exposed to the natural virus, again, they had a cytokine reaction and all of them died. So like this, now we’re speeding up research here. And we’ve said, yes, looks good so far, but we’re not testing the longterm impact. What is going to happen to all these people? And I really worry about, and when we call this science, it’s like science to a tiny point. It’s not truly, so many scientists are actually upset with us. because we’re not, we’re going to be the Guinea pigs of, of this, you know? And that worries me a lot.
Dr Matt (35:35):
Yeah. Gosh, there’s a lot there. Thanks for sharing
Dr Matt (35:38):
All that. It’s just to double click on one thing you just said, I was speaking with my financial advisor today and we were just having a conversation about how currency is being devalued because of this crisis. And this is going to come back to what you were talking about, but the contextually this crisis has hit economies all over the world. Very hard. In fact, globally, this has been more impactful than the great depression, which goes back to what you said earlier with relationship to health impacts. What’s interesting is our response to that. At least the United States and many European countries is we say, Oh, well, let’s just print money. Just print it. You don’t need to make, it is not tied to the gold standard anymore. It’s just sort of a made up concept. So you just print more money.
Dr Matt (36:31):
Well when you print more money, the value of that dollar or pound or yen devalues, and we’re actually lending money at negative rates, especially in Europe, it’s just starting here in the United States, all that to we were talking about devaluing currency and I have a Canadian guy that I love to follow. Who’s who’s various dude talking about silver and gold and these times and so on and so forth. And he said, well, do you want to look at any of the stocks and you’re in health? Do you know, do you have a feeling about any of these, you know, companies with the vaccine stuff like Moderna? And I said, I’m not going to put any money in Moderna. This is crazy. I mean, this is just it’s. So I don’t want to say rig, but when the U S government pays these guys, billions of dollars for a vaccine that hasn’t really fully been tested, I was like, I don’t want, I don’t want any of that on my hands. I can get it over and let’s hope for the best.
Dr Manon (37:32):
No, I haven’t actually.
Dr Matt (37:34):
So there’s a big, there’s a big context here, but I did, I did want to touch on that.
Dr Manon (37:38):
No, it’s a good, it’s a really good point because I like, again, it’s time to look very holistically because the answers cannot be in one domain and that’s where, you know, health and finance and all of that all come together. It’s really important. It’s the, it’s the tensegrity matrix
Dr Matt (38:01):
Psyche. And we are so part…………. Our bodies don’t end with skin ADI is this entire cosmos, you know, one thing I wanted to say and you know, one thing I wanted to say is in the United States, we’ve had an eye, I’d have to double check my numbers, but what about 160,000 deaths? So to be fair, statistically, that’s a pretty high amount of deaths from one thing. And also to be fair, but then I want to come back and give another perspective. You know, my friends who are in medicine, who are physicians or nurses in, on the so-called front lines, they’re like, man, we’ve seen some bad stuff. This stuff can really mess some people up. So clearly there are people who sensitivity and inability to adapt to the virus. It’s scary. And it’s really sad and that’s totally legit.
Dr Matt (38:55):
100% legit. My question though, is it’s so sad to me that the empowerment on this issue has been, Oh, the world will just basically pause until we get a vaccine with an assumption that a vaccine, once you get it, you’re good. And it doesn’t work that way when we, see major diseases instead of, you know, Been controled. I do think, I really do think, you know, I sort of, I diverge a little bit chiropractors as a whole tend to be hardcore. Anti-Vaxxers almost to the point where they can’t be influential in the arena because they have such strong vitriolic opinions. I see the role, you know, having spent a lot of time in the third world and my kids and I spent a lot of time in the third world, I have seen how vaccines have helped communities, but I also know that they come at a cost when we have a big portion of the population that’s already pre flamed, which is to say their gut is already pre flamed.
Dr Matt (40:02):
And now we inject more noxious irritants in there. Yes. Are they safe for a lot of people? Sure. I think based on, based on their health metrics, but there are a large portion of people there’s so pre flamed sticks and stuff in, and it causes a lot of problems. If you have a big group of provocateurs who are autism deniers, and you can’t argue with the statistics when one in 100 kids in the United States gets autism and you look at the number of vaccines, you got to go and then the American diet and all of this stuff factors in. So when we talk about the vaccine conversation, that one of the biggest heartaches I have in this whole process of COVID-19 is that billions of people are hanging their hats. Hanging their hope on a vaccine, funny story, but it’s just hanging on that instead of literally empowering themselves to look after their own internal ecology.
Dr Matt (41:01):
I mean that’s what gets me too. I don’t see it as exclusive black or white, no vaccine only natural conversation, but here’s a crazy fact right yesterday because I really followed precious metals. And when I start to see such a breakdown of, of currency and society and culture, I’m kind of like, I think, you know, gold looking like a pretty good option or Bitcoin, right? And so who Vladimir Putin with all due respect, mr. Putin, you rushing a vaccine through. It was amazing. So the goal gold price dropped dramatically yesterday, honestly, because Putin claimed he had a vaccine. So people rushed out a goal to go buy stocks and put their money in all these stocks because, Oh my God, we’ve got a vaccine and the world’s going to be okay, that’s the level of consciousness that we’re at right now. That’s the it’s had not only on one of the more disingenuous and known dishonest dictators in the world to say, he’s given a vaccine, but I’ve given it to my daughter. It must be okay. It’s nuts. It’s totally nuts.
Dr Matt (42:17):
So much the smoke screen. That’s artificial trying to boost confidence without real substance and then boost economic data without real substance. So you see we’re on a house of cards in many, many ways. So when we come back to the most important thing, you know, as my old Zen teacher said that the most important thing is the most important thing. The most important thing is people and communities and that people can feel resilient and feel connected and feel empowered and have joy and have relationships. That’s what I’m concerned is eroding through this. And I also want practitioners, whether it’s me or other people to read deeply and to find that tenacity and fortitude within, to show up for patients who really, really need your touch. You know, you have no idea how one reconfiguration of the fascia can set what you have an idea and all your students have an idea, but it’s set into motion, incredible activity in that body that could save their life.
Dr Matt (43:19):
And I don’t care if people tell me that’s misinformation, it’s not, you alter the structure of the human body. You upregulate the genes that are associated with secretory, IGA, and other immune modulators. You decrease inflammation. You give people hope in their breathing deeper. Now their lungs are better. So maybe they get the COVID virus, but now it doesn’t progress. That’s the bigness of what we do. And I don’t want people to get scared by all of these thought police out there that aren’t actually thinking in truth at all. So, you know, if I get a, if I get shut down, although I don’t, I don’t know how that would be possible given, given the work that I do and that I follow the regulations out of respect for the system, but patients need to know that health is mine, body emotion, spirit, soul, mind, body, spirit, emotional soul. It doesn’t exclude vaccines. It doesn’t exclude, I think medicine. Yeah, the rest of it, but it transcends scientism and scientism is a religious fanatical thought system. That is in fact not based in rational thought [inaudible] Oh, well, I think you’ve summed it up.
Dr Manon (44:32):
I’m just going to go ditto, but I’ll do your expression double, double press or whatever. Double click on one point. because I did want to raise because it’s easy to be labeled an anti vaxxer. If you say anything about vaccines and I wanted to raise this issue because I think a lot of people don’t realize this and again, I’m not voting one way or another. That’s not my main thing. And everyone needs to make in my mind a very conscious decision and get information. But when I was doing my master’s in law, I was looking into this pretty seriously. And I saw that one, that hygiene had a huge impact. And we don’t talk about hygiene. I mean, you, you did. And I talks about hygiene. There’s people talking about hygiene, but I think that’s something we need to look at because now that our economy is, is falling apart and there’s more and more poverty, we’re going to have again, hygiene issues, major hygiene issues, which are going to cause all kinds of problems.
Dr Manon (45:45):
The other thing I wanted to raise that that people may not know in 1986, the the pharmaceutical companies no longer needed to do payouts for damages and they had paid out enormous amounts. So, and it’s very hard to prove that a vaccine caused the damage. So you can be sure that the, the billions that were paid out were, it was hard work to, to be able to set that. But now there is no liability, which means that we’re rushing things and there’s no one responsible, but what really got me, I got to share this because it was in marketing class that I got this. And I was like, well, we were looking at at effective campaigns and we’re in a study from Yale university. This is like super recent. You can go to their site. And it’s basically, they’re trying to figure out an effective vaccine campaign.
Dr Manon (46:56):
And they have 12 main ways of that. They’re going to be testing in small groups like you do any market research on how to get people to you know, to, to choose vaccines because now there’s all this production and they need to make sure that the market is ready. So it’s like literally a propaganda campaign that is, is being studied at Yale university. And you can go to their site. It’s it’s in plain sight. But I think where I, I have issues is where, why does it take propaganda to convince people why don’t we have completely open discussions? And I think it’s super important because Forbes had an article……. It says, don’t do your own research by Ethan Seagull. He says, doing your own research is destructive and dangerous. And this isn’t Forbes. And it’s like, wait a minute. Here is the message like, just be docile and follow, like to be able to, you know, to, to be healthy, you need to be able to express. You need to have opinions and you can be wrong. It’s fine to be wrong, but let’s debate it. You know, let’s talk about,….
Dr Matt (48:26):
And that’s the hallmark of when I say liberal, I don’t mean left free democratic society. Those are the foundational principles. And what’s fascinating to me is that so much of the style of control and thought policing is, mimicking the Chinese system, a hardcore dictatorial system that is based in Mao’s post-modern nihilism. And so the challenge is that this thought policing is, it’s so dangerous. It’s so dangerous because it actually takes out dialogue and discourse. All of which can drive the scientific process and the evolutionary process of medicine and by medicine, I mean every facet of it from, Bowen therapy or the work I do to yeah. You know, neurosurgery the whole, the whole kit and caboodle. It’s so scary to me and the loss, the usurping of Liberty based on fear that when you really follow the money has clear benefactors. And we didn’t even talk about that.
Dr Matt (49:46):
That’s frustrating to me. And also that exclude such a giant base of helpful information. Yeah. All in the spirit that feels very like big brother. I don’t like that. What I find interesting in the United States. And let me tell you that I was raised in a home that was very liberal and very democratic. You know, my mother supported the Southern poverty law centre. Both my parents grew up in the South during segregation, the South United States during segregation. And we had, we grew up with amazing values of inclusivity and equality. I have watched the liberal left in the United States become just as insane as the far conservative, right. And like creating, Biden and one of his onstage……. He said, we choose now, I know Biden’s got some cognitive decline challenges. So I think there’s some medical issues there, but he said,We choose facts over truth. And I thought, you know, isn’t that it, you know, we make up these facts, but we’re not really living in truth.I mentioned economy and I mentioned politics and we mentioned socioeconomics, but health is the optimal state of wellbeing of mind, body emotion and spirit. And it is also a sociological phenomenon. We are bios. So it’s, bio-psycho-social eons that are correlating. And co-evolving amongst this whole matrix, this tensegrity matrix of the thought field,
Dr Manon (51:31):
You know, what’s so funny because that’s the definition that the world health organization, as of health, yeah. You look up the original, you know, definition. That’s what they say. It’s not what’s happening now because of the financing and all that, but it is actually what they once said. It’s interesting.
Dr Matt (51:52):
I think the opportunity, in this is that all that aside I want to choose my words carefully here. Those of us in the health field can be quiet, but powerful voices in the community that can work on that one to one or one to many level for people who are influencers and really help shift people’s minds while simultaneously people are valuing health by and large, I think way more than ever, because we truly see that our health is literally our wealth. You know, we was just to say that, and you know, my intro lectures while your health is your wealth, and if you don’t have your wealth and people are like, Oh yeah, okay, I get it. I get it now. Like, Oh my God, I totally get it. Like, you know, we have mass unemployment, mass economic impact.
Dr Matt (52:46):
And so the opportunity is to be these torch bearers ………………. it doesn’t take a bunch of torches to light up the darkness. You know, it takes a few courageous souls who will carry the torches and other courageous souls who will take the torch and just pass it on in this case, that’s the light of knowledge. It’s the empowering knowledge that health comes from the inside out. So inside out BJ Palmer said above down, inside out, meaning, you know, we’re, we’re spiritual, energetic beings who then produce health from the inside out, doesn’t exclude allopathic in event, but it says the core basis, the philosophy of health is that we are in, this comes straight out of Grey’s anatomy that the central nervous system is the master controller of the entire body. We know fascia is a part of the central nervous system, therefore, any blocks or breaks in that central nervous system through stressors, physical, mental, emotional nutritional biochemical will block the ability to self regulate and to self heal.
Dr Matt (53:53):
So it just as simple Aristotle logic that it makes sense to work with the body to build it up from within so that it can self regulate, self heal, and co-evolve in the best way. We’re all better for that. We’re all better for that. And I think that’s the opportunity now is to really get super passionate, becomes masterful at our craft. And if people have more downtime, now it’s such an amazing time to learn and to study and to build your skills, to take your teachings online. And yeah, so I just think it’s a great time. And I know that, you know, one of the Buddha’s great teachings was impermanence. So in actual fact, this is going to pass, you know, as my grandmother always used to say this too shall pass, so it’s going to pass, it’s going to transform. And then this is going to be an even better marketplace for your students and for me and for you to enter into.
Dr Matt (54:52):
So I think, you know, it’s scary times and it’s frustrating times, but I think this is also such an evolutionary tension. And so tension that, that sort of friction intention and in a chaos physics is usually what would then burst forth a higher order of organization, which previously was not available. That’s the quantum jump. That’s a quantum leap. That’s a quantum jump that’s Hey, we’re fish. And we’re swimming in this ocean. And all of a sudden, a few of us are like, wait a minute. This, this water is polluted. I think we need to fly like the birds I’ve seen, you know, in their first few go on shore and they sort of flop and they don’t make it, but after a while something kicks in and we saw that birds actually became fish from an evolutionary context. And I think that’s where we’re at now. So I think this is the evolutionary possibility of really birthing wings and really creating a whole new humanity. But I think we’re at the brink of massive breakdown. If enough people don’t stand up for sanity.
Dr Manon (55:56):
i agree with everything you’ve said, and I do feel positive about this because I do feel it is an opportunity for good to emerge. And I I love that you’re encouraging the healers, the practitioners to do their work because this is a time where the healers are the front line of this evolution.so many people need deep healing. And this is, the time that we can really serve at the highest level possible. So I just wanted to just say that and, and not to be afraid of numbers, use your voice. It’s one little voice, but if everyone has one little voice you know, there’s a symphony, so
Dr Matt (56:56):
Dr Manon (56:57):
Anyway, well, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure we’ll have to do this again in like five months and see where there were holes. Right. Exactly. Okay. Well, thank you so much.
Thank you for joining us. For more information, go to DrManonBolliger.com.