of just reproductive functions. And this is going to help a lot of women. And it’s not only your body, if your mind is ready. And if you are not in that reproduction level, which I explain it in my book also, you cannot get conceived. Let’s say, if you are very depressed, if you’re not happy, if your body is not happy, your baby is not going to happy to come out. Yeah. That’s why I had, I just change my mission. I just think that this is my mission. I need to help women who have this, who have the same issues and struggling with the same.

Dr Manon (06:42):

Well, I love what you’re sharing and, and it’s actually very concurrent with what I’ve seen in my in my medical practice as well, because many couples come in, they’ve done all kinds of things trying for three years, five years, they’re so sick and tired of trying, you know, that they’re almost, almost not in love. Some, some of them they’re almost fighting or looking at the calendar or, you know, and it’s very, very challenging. And I think what most people don’t realize about the whole fertility issue is that if you’re in constant stress mode, your body just doesn’t function as well as it should ,or your hormones don’t kick in, your whole body doesn’t work as well as it should. So I love what you’re saying. And I think it’s the same problem in general, about this single approach to body parts that is so typical of conventional medicine.

Pantea Kalhor  (07:50):

And then something in my practice, I realized I’m, this is unique to me that I do during that time frame, I try to do some creative stuff.I went to a concert and I actually was one of the performers playing violin. And I always afraid to be on the stage. And something broke in me after performing this piece in front of a large audience and an other thing that I published my book and I had another book to publish rules have changed for the better, and then it became bestseller. So these kind of things helped me to find myself, you know, and reproduction means food using something. When you are desperate, you’re not producing. You are just trying to solve…….. You go deeply in your desperate mode. You don’t do anything, no activity or no useful action. But when you are in production level, you are happier. You’re doing something also out of your comfort zone and then things suddenly happen to you, reproduction of power is going to be awoken inside you.

Dr Manon (09:24):

it’s funny because you pointed out too its almost like you’re focused on a larger version of yourself, which is, all of that stretching, getting out of your comfort zone and, and all that. And, it’s funny when, it’s different the point, but it’s close when people decide to go for adoption, they feel like, okay, that’s it. They don’t need to try anymore. They’re going to have a dog. That’s when they get pregnant, you know, and it’s not the same phenomena, but the idea is that you can’t have this, this stressful anxious intent because the body must be relaxed, right? The mind must be occupied.

Pantea Kalhor  (10:14):

I have two stories to tell you some two real stories. The people I knew they went for adoption because they totally gave up on their fertility. They started loving the baby, they adults. And what happened because they already practiced being a parent parenting for them was part of their life. So it was normal for them to be a parent. Sometimes they got pregnant and they have their own baby. I’ve seen this a few times. And I think again, in my practice, I totally believe in it. Can you hear me?

Pantea Kalhor  (11:04):

So I have clients they couldn’t get pregnant for few years. They got married. Then they were in twenties. They said, okay, it’s still so early. We’re going to wait till we are getting older. And then they’re getting older. They couldn’t try. I mean, they had lots of ups and downs. And finally at age of 47, she got pregnant. And I was really surprised because her sister got pregnant and she needed her help to be there. And my client went there and took care of baby. And it was looked like she was, she was practicing to be a mom, but being a mom was not a big deal for them and for her. And finally again, she got pregnant after a year of seeing that baby. So I believe when you make everything very big, always so difficult is not accessible.

Pantea Kalhor  (12:23):

It’s very out of my dream. I don’t deserve to be a mom. This kind of limited belief always holds you back from being a mother or body or nature as a female is designed to be a mother. So if there’s a blocker, it means something in your body is not right and you need to resolve it. And it’s not only you and your specialist. You have to do it in yourself because no matter which, especially as you go, if you don’t believe it, you don’t feel that you deserve it is not going to happen to you. You go from this one to another one desperately and nothing gonna change inside.

Dr Manon (13:16):

The other thing I’ve seen in my practice along the same lines, as you’re saying about the attitude is people trying to save their relationship by having children. And, and it’s like, the focus is in the wrong place. And, and I seen that if I don’t do deeper work to get to the root of that, you know, maybe having a child isn’t the right solution in this case. but it can be that they say that they’ve tried and it’s not working, but it’s because they’re not fully aligned with it. Have you seen that?

Pantea Kalhor  (13:59):

Yes. I love this actually, what you say, that’s a great point. because you cannot save your marriage only by having a baby because what happened first of all, again, you are in desperate mode. You want to be released from desperate mode for having a baby, but still you’re in desperate mode because you hold on your partner to just don’t let her go. Don’t let him go. And then you don’t go out of this desperate mode. By this time you are not in that production level to save your marriage. And at the other step, other upper level, then you have your baby. The relationship is a bit changing because a mother has lots of responsibilities. You don’t, you can’t be for yourself. You have to stay awake during the night. You’re tired. So you have to change the baby’s so many things that you never done before. So the relationship is going to be a little bit different and if they are not supporting and are not trying to save each other, then even having a baby, then it’s not going to save them.

Dr Manon (15:21):

Yeah, absolutely.And I’m just curious how because again, in my work I also have what I call couples that become pregnant, Bowen babies is what I call them. So I do a therapy that’s called Bowen therapy. And I’ve had clients that have tried many, many things and it hasn’t worked, I agree psychology and its understanding is very important, but I have found that some…………………… Structural and this sounds very strange because I’ve not had it. I have not really had any other medical professionals saying, yes, that’s the case. I have also not researched this further, but I have many, many, many clients that after doing the work, putting their whole body in parasympathetic and making sure that their vertebral column is freed especially their tailbone and their TMJ that is properly aligned, then they will become pregnant. And it’s more a temporomandibular joint, it’s the joint, the joint, of course, that’s the one we want to relax.

Dr Manon (16:48):

And it’s a, it’s fascinating. I mean, I always work with the whole person, so again, that’s for the psychology of it. I don’t say, okay, off we go, we’re going to do this and you’ll get pregnant because that’s the wrong way of doing it. I always say, well, let’s get rid of all of your problems, whether it’s a shoulder issue low back, because if you have a baby, you’re going to have to carry this baby. So I always focus outside of the imminent, big desire to get pregnant. And, and then, then I make sure that everything else works. And and they’ve like, it’s amazing how many couples have gotten pregnant this way. So it’s yeah, I was just wondering if you have come across, I’m interviewing all these experts, anyone who who saw the connection between the structure, the physicality of the body and pregnancy I was wondering you’ve interviewed different people in your own search and in your own under wanting to understand more, have you come across any other experts that have talked about the connection to the body, the physicality of it, the structure of it.

Pantea Kalhor  (18:19):

Yes, actually if I understand your question I talked to so many fertility coaches and also even medical doctors and people who already struggled with fertility and got rid of it. And then they got, the baby. Yes, they’re physical. One of them that I interviewed yesterday, she said I had the lining issue, like…….problem. And then when I remove that problem, I got pregnant and the other one had taught her issue. Another one has, some other physical problems that is related is not directly related to fertility, but it is related to body because the body should be happy and healthy as a whole picture. I’m not saying not everybody gets pregnant. I’m not saying everybody cannot get pregnant if they are not a hundred percent of healthy, but at least the connections should work. Your hormones is not only your fertility, hormones, other hormones should be aligned with your body and should work together.

Dr Manon (19:47):

Yeah. because in whether it’s in chiropractory or many body works or osteopathy or Bowen therapy, we often say that structure governs function. So if there’s an alignment in the spine or if the fascia, which is what surrounds all our organs and it’s own nervous system. If all of that is freed, then we work more optimally. Right? So it’s beyond looking at it from an organ like the gut or the liver, or, you know, making hormones. It’s also the way that the spine sits and the way that our Vegas nerve, the sympathetic parasympathetic are firing. And the reason I asked this is because you have also experienced PTSD. So I wanted to understand What is your experience with that? How does that fit in to and fertility issues? Or is it that fertility and trying so many times you basically have PTSD because you’re suffering so much from not. So if you could expand on that, I’d be very interested.

Pantea Kalhor  (21:07):

I didn’t let myself to go very deeply because the second time when I realized that I’m going to so much pain and depression, I didn’t want to go there. So I get rid of it’s very soon because I had a formula before, when I had PTSD and injuries and too much nightmares too get rid of it. I knew if I follow that formula, my body is going to be ready again. So what I did, I try to do some, as I said, creative and productive jobs, right. I did some traveling and I just said, okay, I accept myself the way I am, no matter if I’m not, if I’m a mother or not. And then I started visualizing very heavily. So I actually knew that a baby’s gonna sleep on my arms and I could hear her heartbeat because I also had two miscarriages and miscarriage is so painful, especially when you have pain and the second miscarriage I had hours, it was very near to death. I had a very difficult and near to death miscarriage. And for the second one that was so painful because I couldn’t hear my babys heartbeat from the beginning ,it means it was miscarried. And this is so painful.

Pantea Kalhor  (22:59):

I know emotions. I know PTSD, depression, all of them can help to not and letting you to be a mother, but we shouldn’t go there. We shouldn’t let ourselves to be there. So it didn’t for the second time when I was having fertility issues I never say infertility. I don’t like this term. I always say fertility issues because problems can be solved. Right? So issues. Yeah, because as a mathematician, an engineer. So I knew that all the problems have some solution. You know, so many, many women can be infertile, but unfortunately they go to the loop of this depression, distress, and then they even don’t know what is inside and they should be resolved that. But the good thing about here, why they get pregnant after they let it go have heard about it so many times, they just, we don’t want to go there. We just want to have our normal life because you let your body to be normal. Again, when you push your body to get pregnant and you, you don’t enjoy being with your partner. You don’t enjoy your life. You just push, even, even the, you plan for your perfect pregnancy, which is not a bad thing. But if, if you do it so many times and you don’t enjoy your sex life, then what’s the point.

Dr Manon (24:52):

Yeah, definitely. Well, it’s a, it’s like you’re saying it’s a, it’s a constant stressor instead of enjoyment. And if you’re in stress, your body doesn’t function,

Pantea Kalhor  (25:03):

Push it. You push your body to do this, and then your body doesn’t want to because the body is not happy. And as soon as you let it go, the body has its own timing. And at the right time it’s going to happen. If you let it go, so it’s going to happen.

Dr Manon (25:26):

So you have a a new book coming out, right? Do you have a copy of that?

Pantea Kalhor  (25:33):

Actually yes. This book that’s this book is so valuable for me. It’s so interesting. Why, because for my first book was of change for the better, I was only me to write the book about my personal stories, experiences, and how to change your life. But the second book, when I started writing this book, my journey started because I didn’t want to be alone in this journey. I wanted to have more fertility specialists experienced gynecologist. I wanted to have psychologist, traditional Chinese medicine, holistic. I have combination of top people in this interview and podcasts that I have planned for my book and the interesting thing, miraculously, I found a very nice network and I could connect to these nice people. There are bright, resourceful, and very intelligent females in the podcast i am so grateful to have them. And this book is a combination of my experiences as a PTSD CBT coach and a fertility warrior, and a collection of those interviews and experiences that I had. I got from fertility experts and traditional medicine and holistic medicine.

Dr Manon (27:13):

That sounds good.when is your book coming out?

Pantea Kalhor  (27:29):

My book is going to be on preorders. That was from tomorrow. And it’s going to be published in December 7t 2020. It’s going to be published on the day of publishing. I’ll we’ll have or the week of publishing Mostly I have a virtual summit and I’m going to invite all of the experts inside the book to be there. And also there are people who’s gonna buy the book and read the book on have these experience to listen to these bright women. And this is gonna be a great experience to learn and ask questions to be on the live summit. So I’m planning for this. My podcasts and interviews is still going. So this is going to be ongoing process for fertility on podcasts. I have a Facebook page, which also they can go there. I mean, anything with fertility issues, especially over 40, they can go there and they can use these podcast interviews and they can be connected. And I just want to show them that they are not alone in this journey. And this has got to be a very happy and joyful journey for all of them.

Dr Manon (29:18):

Well, I love your message and what a great idea to create you know, the support community as well around your, interviews of experts and and then package it in a book as well. So there’s, it’s it’s a great way of spreading the the encouragement and the hope that that you are then you are doing and yeah. Congratulations also on your own success in, in having a child as well as the rest, of course, but I mean, that’s wonderful. So we’re our time is up. Is there any last words you wanted to share?

Pantea Kalhor  (30:02):

Yes. I just want to say that if you are a struggling with fertility issues, if you are if you are stuck in vicious cycle of miscarriages, if you think that your time is up and your clock is ticking, I have a very good news for you. You can start over, you can be stronger, more decisive and more productive, and you’re not going to be alone in this journey. And this is a bridge between holistic medicine and Western medicine, psychology, and anything that can help you to stand and enjoy your journey.

Dr Manon (31:04):

Well, thanks very much. And we’ll see you another time. Thank you so much.

Thank you for joining us. For more information, go to DrManonBolliger.com.